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 02-11-2005, 15:16 Post: 105960
DeTwang



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 Saddams Sinister Plans for the US and Europe

Just heard on the news that a top biologist and bioterrorism expert for the CIA who worked on the Duelfer Report, said that Saddam was working on plans to contaminate perfume bottles with sarin gas, and over the shelf cold/headache medicines with ricin, and distribute them on a wide scale to store shelves throughout the US and europe.

He was working on perfecting the atomization of both so that they could easily be released in vapor form at shopping malls, political conventions, and so on in the US.

I guess this is part of what was meant in the Duelfer Report that although no WMDs were actually found, Saddam was far more dangerous and threatening to the US than anyone had thought.

Although that last part often gets left off of the political and news comments. Only the part where no WMDs were found is ever quoted. They also clarified that they never said that there were no WMDs, only that none were found. Something that's also conveniently left out when quoting the Duelfer Report.






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 02-11-2005, 16:46 Post: 105961
Harryg



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 Saddams Sinister Plans for the US and Europe

Saddam is a murderer there is no doubt. But there are those that will protect their own interests. Ask the Libs if it was worth the war. They will say no. Ted Kennedy and those bums are zeroes in my book.






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 02-12-2005, 12:02 Post: 105983
DeTwang



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 Saddams Sinister Plans for the US and Europe

Last night I watched the documentary movie "Voices of Iraq". I bought it on eBay but there are copies available through a link on the official movie website and it can be rented from netflix.

I highly recommend this movie to anyone interested in the truth about Iraq. I found it to very closely resemble the picture of Iraq that is painted by the soldiers I've talked to who were actually there doing the dirty work.

It was made by distributing 150 cameras to the citizens of Iraq sometime after the invasion of baghdad, who were then told how to operate them and to go and film whatever they want and to interview whomever they want. In the credits, it lists the movie as being filmed and directed by the people of Iraq. It is an interesting picture that unfolds in the months that follow the camera distribution as the cameras make their way throughout the country.

Personally I think it should be required curriculum in american high schools, colleges and universities.

Below is a link to the movies official website.






Link:   Voice of Iraq 

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 02-12-2005, 12:14 Post: 105984
DeTwang



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 Saddams Sinister Plans for the US and Europe

Below is a link to the CIA website listing the section of Duelfer report pertaining to Saddams plans and research with chemical and biological agents.

Here are some other articles on the subject:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1020/p08s03-cojh.htm

http://www.aijac.org.au/updates/Oct-04/211004.html

http://www.newswithviews.com/Eakman/beverly18.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/report/2004/isg-final-report/isg-final-report_vol3_cw-anx-a.htm






Link:   CIA Report 

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 02-13-2005, 06:28 Post: 106002
grinder

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 Saddams Sinister Plans for the US and Europe

Interesting web site with another viewpoint.
At the least read the Statement of Purpose.






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 02-13-2005, 09:22 Post: 106010
DeTwang



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 Saddams Sinister Plans for the US and Europe

Well, I read the statement of purpose. And I don't understand how anyone can come to the conclusion that saddam wasn't a clear and present danger to the US after reading the duelfer reports findings. Especially in light of the fact that france and germany were putting so much pressure on the UN to drop the sanctions against him and were infact within a few months of succeeding.

Secondly, the argument against unilateral action is moot, now that we 'know' that our so called "allies" in old Europe would not have supported action against saddam no matter what he was doing, as they were complicit in providing him with the means to rebuild his programs. Corruption ran deep through the UNs oil for food program.

They have a right to their opinion, and I can certainly understand why they would be against the war having fought in one that went pretty badly, but to ignore the likes of Saddam is akin to sticking your head in the sand. Much as we did with Hitler. Saddam and Hitler were very similar personalities with very similar visions and goals.

America has do decide if we want to be a part of the world at large, or to put up a big wall, pull all our troops home, and stop doing business outside of our borders, hoping that we can stay strong enough to repel any technology that the outside world might develop.

These fanatics in the mideast will destroy the world if left unchecked. Sanctions don't work because the world governing bodies and so called allies undermine them to line their own pockets. For the same reason, we can be assured that they themselves will not do anything to stop this madness. That leaves us to do it ourselves.

I always hear, war is wrong, war is not the answer. Bring our troops home now, and so on.

Yet I never hear an alternative solution to the problem of what to do about these madmen.

So if war is not the answer, and sanctions and inspections wont work because of corruption, what 'is' the answer? That's all that those of us who are supporting the war effort want to know. What is the viable alternative to war?

To do nothing is suicidal, to go to the UN and old Europe is futile. Obviously, appeasement doesn't work. And the longer we procrastinate, the worse the problem gets. So what is the other choice?.






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 02-13-2005, 13:41 Post: 106015
DeTwang



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 Saddams Sinister Plans for the US and Europe

Grinder and others who are opposed to this war.

I'm 'sincerely' trying to understand your POV, but I can't.

I am 'genuinely' interested in the reasoning behind your POV, and why you think I'm wrong.

Surely there must be reasoning you have other than you just hate war, or bush, or whatever.

Do you not see the threat looming by not doing something about this guy as well as the others in that region?

I need to be 'convinced' through reason, not emotion, that there is a 'better' way. I need an alternative plan to war. One that works. Not the failures we've already tried. That's the main reason IMO, that the dems lost in this election. They critisized bush policy without offering an alternate plan of their own.

I've made my reasons for supporting the war pretty clear I think. So in the interest of 'peace' I want to try and understand your vision for US policy in the Arab world as well as that with Korea, china, Europe and the UN.

I am not just trying to argue. There has been some heated dialog on this subject around here (as well as in the country in general), and I can't for the life of me understand the other sides point of view. But I do want to try and understand why they have come down on this issue the way they have. I sincerely hope it's not just because of political bias.

I just don't see any historical precedent where ignoring or placating evil men has succeded in neutralizing the threat those men pose.






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 02-14-2005, 23:08 Post: 106128
brokenarrow



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 Saddams Sinister Plans for the US and Europe

No matter what side of the fence we Americans are on of this war I think we all will admit it will more than likely get worse before it gets better. Not the war but the terrorism in the world. We have only been bit once recently and look what it has done to the country. Our people will have to get tougher if we are to survive in the "new world order". I dont agree with every jonh dick and harry having a camera in a war zone, this only infuriates some while putting out troups in a political correct state of mind that will undoughted get a few killed. No different than a policeman having to worry about how he protects himself in the day of video cams.
Whether we have not been hit by terrorism since 911 because of tight security or because of other reasons I do feel we have been lucky.
Do you think the terrorist groups are that organized? It makes you wonder. If they are as organized as some think they are than I feel that they are affraid of us and our capability's. With the tail spin we went in after 911 you would of thought we would be hit again if they are they good.
If they are not that organized and the reason we have not been hit again is just that, I think the american public is in for a rude awakening.
Those of us who are older know the feeling of leaving school every day and wondering if tomarroo there will be a school there or even if we will be here. The nuclear war threat days. Remember on a weekly if not a daily basis thinking if tomaroo will be the day? I do. My kids and the generation before me just barely knows about this. The next generation will have many many hurdles and new fears to handle. I do not believe that diplomatic talks and sanctions is enough to gaurentee our safety. I am sorry to say that I do feel that if we ever have a serious attack here in this country that we will have to retaliate with total and complete destructive force with out concern about world opinion. That may sound crude but may be the only way for other country's to take a stand against terrorists living among them and harboring them. The fear of what could happen to your country if you harbor a terrorist group that strikes the USA is (IMO) the best way to controll terror around the world. Kinda like turning in the crack dealer infront of your house. It would be easy to look the other way. If there were consequences to not turning him in then more would be likely to do the right thing.






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 02-14-2005, 23:19 Post: 106129
brokenarrow



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 Saddams Sinister Plans for the US and Europe

Sorry got off track in the last post.
I am 100% behind the war efforts. Maybe for not the same reasons as any who are for or against it though. I feel Sadam was thumbing his nose at the UN because he knew they are a bunch of pansy's. He would play his little game of hide and seek and then not let inspectors in and then let them in and so on. I feel Clinton took the safe way out. When Sadam kicked the inspectors out the first time, that should of been it, right there and then!
I understood why we did not go into bagdad thew first time and at the time I felt it was thr right thing to do. Sadamm would learn his lesson about invading others and it would be done and over. The second he went back on the inspectors should of been it.
I dont expect anyone to switch their beliefs because of what I believe in. They need to express themselves in their own way with their own feelings. I respect their opinions 100%. That is what freedom is about. I do not believe though that we should return to the protest days of years gone by. We all have seen what that does.
Support our toops, and say a prayer for them. I am one hoping they get the hell out of there as soon as possible.
Untill then though I hope we all can be behind the efforts they are putting forth.






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 02-15-2005, 09:42 Post: 106152
DeTwang



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 Saddams Sinister Plans for the US and Europe

quote
-----------------------
I feel Sadam was thumbing his nose at the UN because he knew they are a bunch of pansy's.
-----------------------

Not only that, he knew they were in his pocket because of bribery and corruption. He also knew they were sympathetic to him and unsypathetic to the US, I mean, if it were not for US and british official protests against it, the UN was going to put Saddam on the "UN Human Rights Commision". That speaks volumes.

Not to mention the fact that for twelve years he was shooting at our fighter jets. Most countries consider that an act of war in itself.

quote
-------------------
They need to express themselves in their own way with their own feelings. I respect their opinions 100%
-------------------
I respect their right to their opinion, but not neccessarily their opinion.

For instance, U of C professor Churchill Wards opinion about the 9/11 victims deserving it and being compared to nazis. Or Howard Deans accusations that President Bush knowingly allowed the 9/11 attacks to happen for political gain. Or Accusations by some in the media that Jews were behind the attacks on the World Trade towers. There are countless other opinions I could mention, that I cannot respect. Respect is earned, not given.

What those who oppose the war do need to do, is come up with viable alternatives and explain their position better. They are not offering any solutions, only lambasting.

There are those who say, "1500 lives is too many". Well, the only way to eliminate these losses is for the US to drop all concern for collateral damage and world opinion, and just obliterate the enemy though mass destruction tactics. Like they say, "Freedom isn't free". It is always paid for in blood.

I would hope that they do not feel we should do nothing when attacked or about the growing problem of our enemies gaining access to weapons and technology that can put a serious hurt on us here at home.

To have their alternative viewpoint taken seriously, they need to offer one.






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