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Milton Williams
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2002-01-30          35105

Where are all you Chevy guys, they are also good for pulling trailers. I have a 99 Silverado Z71 4x4 extended cab that I use to pull a 14 foot dual axel trailer with my jd4200 usually with the fel and blade or 5 foot finishing mower and it does not have any problems pulling it. The 5.3 engine is a very good performing engine.

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Steve in Buffalo NY
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2002-01-31          35136

My '97 GMC Suburban 2500 with 454 pulls pretty good too. And seats 8. And has a killer CD player. And 4wd.

How's that? ....

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Becky
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2002-01-31          35137

Anyone know how much a Z71 ex cab chevy 4x4 shortside truck can pull.I am pulling a two horse bp horse trailer and want to get a bigger trailer but don't want to put too much stain on my truck.Really want a gooseneck and steel ones are more in my price range, but don't know about weight.My truck is 1993 with a 350 in it.Has 131000 miles but still runs great. ....

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ob1kubota
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2002-01-31          35139

Becky
I would think around 7300 lbs trailer and load maximum,you will want an electric break set up on the truck and trailer,for your best bet-check the back of the owners manuel or the sticker on the drivers door or pillar it will tell you the max.capasity,gear ratio and trans type make a difference so you want to check the specks for your exact truck,I had a 98 gmc silverado 350 4x4 extra cab short bed,I would pull a 4500lbs tractor and a 2000 lbs trailer on a reciever hitch,A goose neck is the way to go if you can swing it,they ride and handel better than the same weight trailer on a reciever type hitch ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-02-01          35152

It's not my area of expertise since I made a decision to get a utility trailer and road the tractor rather than trailer the tractor with my highway 1/2 ton. I did come to understand some issues though. There some issues here to think through, although some have more to do with safety than stress on the truck.

I believe every vehicle has a max weight rating, which is the combined weight of vehicle, trailer and load. It would be good if separate ratings were stated for vehicles with and without factory tow packages.

What is hard on a truck depends on how it's set up. A tow package has things like stronger springs, bigger brakes, TX oil cooler, lower gearing and a heavy-duty alternator for the brakes. Heavy loads and hills heat up TX’s and an automatic with highway gearing often just won’t cut it.

Heavier loads of course require tandem axle trailers and brakes on one or more axles. Somewhere in the archives is a rule of thumb for relating towed weight as a percent of vehicle weight to trailer brakes. I also believe that trailer brakes may be good, but for heavy loads they are not substitutes for the larger vehicle brakes found in tow packages. Another rule of thumb gives tongue weight as a percent of load. One of the things that should limit towed weight is that applying the tongue weight rule starts exceeding the hitch rating.

Around here fairly ordinary trucks towing 2-horse trailers are seen all the time. I don't know if larger trailer means more space, steel or more horses. 2-horses probably works easily, but more starts sounding a bit heavy for a highway 1/2-ton. I know that balancing loads to achieve desired tongue weights is important when towing max loads. I suspect that the horses might resent being 'arranged' to achieve an optimal tongue weight, but then I really don't know. Ballasting might be required especially if carrying something like 3 in a 4-horse trailer.
....

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David Waite
Join Date: Jun 1999
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2002-02-01          35176

You can check with Chevy on the tow ratings if you dont have a owners manual. Most half tons are overloaded with two people and a tool box. Z71 gives you larger tires and different gears which will help but you will find if you put it on a scale you exceed the axle ratings of the truck. normally if you tow move up to a bigger truck. Chevys web site has tow ratings for the new truck line and you can use that for reference. ....

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Gary in Indiana
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2002-02-03          35254

The math for figuring hauling/towing capacities is pretty simple, really. Look at the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) for your truck and subtract from that the total weight of the truck with all fluids, fuel and occupants. The difference is the total amount you can haul/tow.

A 3500 model might carry a GVWR of 10,000 lbs. The truck with fluids, fuel and occupants might weigh 4,800 lbs. Your hauling towing capacity is then 5,200 lbs. Assuming you load properly (either truck or trailer or both) that's the rated number. You can haul 5,200 and tow nothing, tow 5,200 and haul nothing or any combination thereof. I hope this helps. ....

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Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999
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2002-02-03          35256

Gary, sorry to differ with you, but you're mistaken about the tow ratings. The GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) statements you made are correct for the total capacity for hauling (of course, you sometimes also have to have the weight distributed properly between the front and rear axles). However, there is also a GCVWR (gross combined vehicle weight rating) that will be higher than the GVWR. It is the weight of the truck and all of it's contents PLUS the weight of the towed vehicle (trailer). I used to be a full time RVer, and in fact was towing a fifth wheel trailer with a C3500 Chevy with a GVWR of 10,000. I've forgotten exactly what the GCVWR was but it varied on those trucks depending on the engine/transmission/rear end ratio. I had the 454 engine with 4.10 rear end, but you could get it with a 4.56 rear end and a GCVWR of about 19,000 lbs. I believe mine was 15,000. ....

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David Waite
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2002-02-19          35730

I have been looking hard at the new 3500 from chevy. I like the dmax allison combo. My truck now is a 72 chevy c30 1wd 402 bigblock auto custom camper longhorn with 150k miles needs work its just tough to see a price tag of 40000 for a new truck. Around here they are talking about pollution testing again and the 72 would be exempt so I might just put in a crate engine and some body work for about 10k and pretend it is a new truck. The auto is the only thing holding me back if I could get a 4 speed auto or an overdrive for it it wouldnt be a question old metal rules in my book. I get 12mpg now on the highway at 55 and around 10 in the backroads, still better than some peoples 350 autos getting 9 on the highway. The truck empty weighs 5280 and has a gvw of 9000. In pa it costs 153 a year for registration if I got a new truck I would register it for 10000 gvw even though the truck is 11,400 gvw because state forest and game land you need a special permit to go on them if the registation is over 10000. From time to time the state police will get a bug and check weight and class stickers. just my thoughts ....

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Bird Senter
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2002-02-20          35739

David, if having an overdrive auto transmission is the only thing keeping you from rebuilding the truck you now have, you might consider something like the Gear Vendors Overdrive. You can click on the link below to read about them; not cheap, but a pleasure to drive. I used to have an '89 C3500 dually, 454 engine, 4.10 rear end when we were living and travelling full time in a 5th wheel. It didn't seem to help fuel economy very much when pulling the trailer, but was about a 25% increase in fuel mileage when we weren't pulling the trailer. I won't go into all the details (you can read them on their web site), but without the trailer, we just used it as an automatic overdrive, and with the trailer, as a gear splitter to make that 3-speed auto into a 6-speed. I'd actually rather have that than any of the newer automatic overdrives. After we traded the truck and trailer for a motorhome, I installed a U.S. Gear overdrive unit on the motorhome (had a source to get it a lot cheaper) and it worked well, but was not nearly the ease and pleasure to drive that the Gear Vendors was. ....


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Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2002-02-22          35812

David;
I would caution you against purchasing a Dmax engine yet. The track record of GM on diesels for pickup is not good. The 3 previous engines have not been stellar. None have been worth the extra money.
I would wait a few years to determine if the engine will build a good reputation. They spent extra time and effort on the engine and built a new plant. Izuzu and Deere had a hand in the new diesel.
Izuzu's track record with road diesels has not been stellar either. The small cabover Izuzu/GM has had problems. Deere has never produced an engine for a road vehicle.
Wait and see, buy a Ford or Dodge or repair the Chev. ....

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Bird Senter
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2002-02-23          35816

Peters, I'll agree that GM hasn't had a very good record with the diesels in pickups (and cars) in the past, but sure wonder about your statement about Isuzu not having a good record either. You obviously know something I don't because I used to have an Isuzu diesel sedan, my dad had the little Chevy/Isuzu pickup, a good friend had an Isuzu pickup, my wife's former employer had an Isuzu cabover, and both my brothers have had GMC/Isuzu cabovers. And in every case, they were the most trouble free vehicles we ever owned. Now obviously it's too early to pass judgment on the new Chev. diesels, but if I had the money to buy a new diesel pickup, you can bet that's the one I'd buy. ....

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David Waite
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2002-02-23          35817

Drove Dodges in the past and the cummins might be good but the wrapper stinks. Drove Ford and I could get use to it but the are changing their diesel to a new G2 6.0 liter next year so thats out for now. My dad has a 93 ford diesel before the power stroke and loves it. 2 of my brothers have power strokes and say they cant be beat. I just like GM when you sit down and the controls all turn the same way and then you get in the others and everything is backwards. I browse the diesel page on the net and GM is working thu the first, second year problems. I am looking for a truck when I get ready to retire to pull a 5th wheel. My truck I use to haul a Saturn pickup slide in vintage 1969 it weighed about 3200 empty alot of hard miles on the truck. The camper was in the back yard several winters back and blew over. I now pull a popup with my van but would like to move up. I just wont be able to do both at the same time, But I am still young enough to wait. See I am growing up. ....


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Peters
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2002-02-23          35821

I agree I like the layout of the controls and the seats etc. in the GM/Chev better than the other two trucks with diesels. The wrapper is not the main concern with me when buying a diesel as it is ~ 1/2 the price of the truck.
If I am buying a diesel then I am buying a long term investment. The pay back on the extra expense for the diesel is more than 150,000. In other words you don't save a cent until you have more than ~ 150,000 miles on the truck.
If you are not thinking about resale or the high milage then you are better with the V10 or other large gas engine.
The Izuzu diesels in their pickups have not performed well. Most made 150.000 miles or more but this makes it a break even proposition with having to but up with less power etc. This makes it a poor return on investment, place the extra money in an ivestment over the life of the truck and you will be farther ahead. For me the average life of the engine and truck needs to be more than 300,000 miles to make the investment attractive.
The Izuzu/GM cabover has not held it resale value and most in the used papers have had the diesel engines worked on in less than 150,000 miles.
GM has pushed how much effort an extra time that they put into this engine. They also held it back about a year to work the bugs out of it. Did they get them all? With GM and Izuzu's track records I would not bet on it. I certainly was not willing to bet 30-40 K on it.
I am sorry if you think I don't know what I am talking about. I researched my purchase as a SAE member. I followed the GM development in the SAE. I talked with oweners and even Cummings engineers before I made my purchase.
I just helped a friend rebuild a 98 GM diesel in a 3500 crew cab. fully loaded. He picked up the truck with less than 150.000 on it for less than 5000. It cost us less than 1000 for parts, but he is a diesel mechanic and has a complete machine shop. It took a few months to complete. Not your average situation. Was it a good deal for him? Was it a good deal for the original owner?
I am not in the position to buy a new truck and as my diesel is only 2 years old hopefully will not be in that position for a long time. I would give it at least one more year so at least the hot shotters have a chance to put some hard high miles on them and check it out. ....

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Stan
Join Date: Feb 2002
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2002-02-23          35828

Becky -

My $0.02 worth:

If you aren't doing a lot of trailering w/ your horses, a 1/2 ton pickup is "enough" for most simple 2 horse trailers. I live in the upper midwest - its relatively flat and straight. Lot's of people get away w/ a two horse and a half ton like this. Most of the horse people I know who do a lot of trailering, or who plan long trips west or south, have a 3/4 ton or bigger.

As you move up to a bigger trailer, you will quickly bump up against the limits of your truck. The engine and transmission is probably fine. I'd think about the suspension though.

If you are going to more horses, or going to a 2 horse w/ a dressing room in front, both total weight and tounge weight go up quickly. This can push the limits of the load carrying ability of a 1/2 ton.

Another consideration that always concerns me is the fact that you are towing a "live" load. As you know, horses move, their balance shifts - and without enough suspension in the truck, you'll know it.

I re-read your post - a gooseneck is more stable to tow, a two or three horse stock style and small dressing/tack area may be light enough for your existing truck - but I'd be careful about much more.

Check the empty weight of the trailer, guesstimate the weight of the critters, tack, hay water, and so on, add in the people, and then check it all against the capacity listings in owners manual or on sticker inside the drivers door. (FYI: my aluminum skinned, 3 horse, slant load, bumper pull has an empty weight of around 4100#).

Another option which I haven't checked myself is to beef up the suspension of your existing truck...there are shops that can re-spring, improve shocks, etc and this might do the trick. I'm told its not too expensive, but not sure what that means.

Good luck -

Stan ....

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J. Sticht
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2002-02-24          35842

As to the weight ratings...
I have a toyota tundra and the GVWR is 6200. the towing capacity is 7200 and the GCWR is 11800. These numbers lead me to believe that I can haul 6200 in the back, tow 7200 (which is also the 11800 less 4300 and fuel/passengers. Is that how I'm to take this? Or does the GVWR mean that I can only put 1900 lbs in back (6200-4300)? ....

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David Waite
Join Date: Jun 1999
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2002-02-24          35843

What it means is your truck with everything attached can only have 6200 pounds on the 4 tires total. 11,800 pounds is the toal weight of the truck and trailer i.e. GCVWR. as long as you do not exceed the axle ratings of the truck. if the truck has a 3800 pound rear axle you cannot put more than that on the axle. if you and your passengers with all your optional equipment air, 4wd, cap,power buckets fuel bigger tires weight 5600 pounds then you can put 600 pounds in the rear or on the trailer hitch. 11800-5600=6200 for a trailer taking in that a hitch type trailer should have 10 percent of the trailer weight on the hitch to carry properly ....

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pdavepennell
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 18 Michigan
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2002-11-11          44885

My 2 cents worth on the Duramax. Firstly I would say that there is ZERO comparison to the Ford or dodge. I have owned all. The Cummins diesel may be nice but the truck is not and chrysler dealers are even worse, I guess were supposed to believe that theyre going to get better with new owners..... The ford is a good truck but loud and slow compared to the GM. I have a 2002 GMC 3/4 ton extended cab 2500 Duramax/allison. It is undoutadly the best truck I have ever owned. I have 30,000 miles and not a hiccup. That is a first for me on any vehicle. I get an average of 18 mpg and as high as 22. the amazing thing about this truck aside from the stereo, leather 8 way seats, etc. is how quite it is and that it has the same pickup as a gas engine. The review I read that sold me initially said that the gas engine configured the same as the diesel was only 1/10 of a second faster in the quarter mile. I have spoken to many other Duramax owners and have yet to hear one complaint. I wish I could have said that about the dodge, there are three people in my neighborhood who had to lemon law theirs because Chrysler would not stand behind their product. That's the only and last one of those I'll ever own, Ive owned alot of fords and they have all been good, The best is my 95 Bronco, 95,000 miles and still lokks/runs new. ....

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Kollerequip
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1 E. Bethel ,Minn.
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2002-12-22          46469

I have a business that requires a lot of heavy towing.
I use a delta 12,000 lb. gooseneck.
I also tow a 11,000 dutchman fifth wheel camper.
My 95 Chevy one ton was pure lemon. after one year and a dozen trips to the shop I gave up and traded it.
I bought a Dodge 3500, cummins 5 spd. and it has been a great truck for heavy towing. The Chevy has a better ride than Dodge, but after 116000 miles two dozen states I have no complaints.
One thing of note,Cummins can be serviced at any medium duty truck center or Cummins center. Most of these dealers will not touch a duromax or powerstroke. I buy my filters at the local Kenworth dealer.
As for Ford, they have a good strong truck, but I would wait until the new diesel has proven itself ....

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