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Forums > Active Threads > Other Tractor Brands > Jinma Farmpro Agracat Nortrac

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Farm Pro 2420 Starter Issues

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parks009
Join Date: May 2019
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2019-05-31          198444


So reading through these forums I was able to diagnose a fuel issue last week and replaced sediment bowl etc. Tractor started up just fine this morning and have been working it for a couple hours.

Well again the tractor died like it was choking for fuel so I went through and checked for bugs and cleaned out sediment bowl.

Now I try to start and sounds like the starter is just spinning. I'm attaching a video and I'm sorry I'm no mechanic but can I get guidance on what may be happening please.


Link:   Video

 
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bogman
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2019-06-01          198445


I don't know where all the mechanics went that used to be on this forum, but if it was my starter, I would take it off and look at the teeth on the flywheel and make sure they're ok. If so then take a prybar and turn the flywheel to make sure you have compression. If so then take some jumper cables and jump your starter and see if it is working correctly. ....

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parks009
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2019-06-01          198448


Alright got the starter off finally, Chinese assemblers dont make it easy.

Looked at the flywheel and doesnt look to bad.

Bench tested starter and gear come on out but don't spin. Hit it with some PB to see if it was gunked up waited a few and tested again same result. I'll attach what photos I can and video ....


Link:   Video

 
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bogman
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2019-06-01          198449


Ok, it doesn't appear that you are testing the starter correctly. The negative clamp from your battery should be going to an ear on the starter shell to provide a ground. Then put your positive clamp on the big post on the solenoid where you took off the red wire on your tractor. Then jump the small post to the red clamp.

And don't jump to the threads on your solenoid, only to the nuts. And if you can, get somebody to put there foot on it while testing to prevent it from jumping around. ....

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parks009
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2019-06-01          198450


Ok did as you said and tested it, gear spins as it should. ....

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bogman
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2019-06-01          198451


That's not good. I was hoping it was a bad starter. Ok, stick a large screwdriver or prybar into the hole where the starter goes and using the side of the opening as a fulcrum, rotate the flywheel via the teeth on the wheel. If it turns easily you have problems. ....

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parks009
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2019-06-01          198452


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parks009
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2019-06-01          198453


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parks009
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2019-06-01          198454


I was hoping the starter was bad to. When I took the starter off I took a pry bar to see if flywheel rotated and it did just fine. ....

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bogman
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2019-06-01          198455


What I'm getting at by turning easily, I mean do you feel the resistance of the pistons going through their cycle with their compression stroke?

Yes the teeth on the flywheel look good. But if the starter is working properly and the flywheel is ok, that just leaves a broken crankshaft. ....

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parks009
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2019-06-01          198456


Ok I understand what your saying and it took a little force to rotate the flywheel. It didn't spin like a top toy so to speak. Also when I initially tried to start it seemed the starter didn't even touch the flywheel, there was no movement in the engine but the starter screamed.

Someone else said it could just have been gunk in the starter keeping it from fully engaging. I'm going to go and re install it tomorrow if mother nature let's me and see what happens. Maybe I'll get lucky but will let you know. ....

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bogman
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2019-06-02          198458


Yes indeed, that's why I wanted you to turn the engine via the flywheel. It would be a very rare thing to snap a crankshaft.

Just because a starter spins doesn't necessarily mean the star wheel is engaging the flywheel. I think something is going wrong with your starter.

Remember Northern Tool if you need a starter. They sell Chinese tractors and parts for them much cheaper than anyone else. ....

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parks009
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2019-06-02          198459


Ok so I talked to an old diesel mechanic here that work on tractors for local farmers. He said the gunk is possible, but it is also possible that when the gear locks out the solenoid doesn't push it far enough making the gear spin. But won't know till I reattach. Said if it still is doing same and flywheel turns then it's more in likely the starter have some issue. ....

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parks009
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2019-06-02          198460


Said when bench testing there is no pressure on the starter. So it just may be weak when actually trying to turn over the motor. We will see. ....

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bogman
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2019-06-02          198461


"Said when bench testing there is no pressure on the starter. So it just may be weak when actually trying to turn over the motor."

Absolutely correct. I am working on a starter problem on a John Deere 4020 right now. It spins like a brand new one while bench testing, put it back in the tractor and it won't spin it over.

All the starter repair shops have gone out of business around here so I have no other option but to order a new one. ....

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parks009
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2019-06-02          198462


Nowadays the old school starter and alternator shops are out of business. We had a small on her and the old man died. His kids worked there but had to sell out, just couldn't compete with these big auto parts store. Its unfortunate, I miss the days you could just take something and have it rebuilt. ....

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parks009
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2019-06-02          198463


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Cyrus55
Join Date: Feb 2012
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2019-06-02          198464


Gunk is quite possibly the problem. I have had several solenoids, in past year, that have failed to operate because of rust/gunk in area surrounds the magnet. Some of these were new and it happened after 6 months or so. Now that you have "spruced" the gear with cleaner you may have allowed it to function even with a weak solenoid shift.
I don't remember if I could disassemble the solenoid on my Jinma or not. I have repaired a Toyota solenoid that was capable of being disassembled.
Note: My Jinma was decaled as a Maverick. Your Jinma is decaled as Farm Pro. Since you have the 2 cylinder version, it is real similar to my Maverick. I have had some starter problems. Mostly mine dealt with the solenoid release not shutting off the starter when I released the key, causing the starter to keep being powered after starting. I put a Ford car starter solenoid in line with the cable to the starter solenoid and used it to feed the tractor starter/starter solenoid. My neighbor burned his Maverick starter up because of such. Circle G tractor from Nashville, TN did handle parts and that's where we got his starter. Not sure if they are still in business, google them. ....

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Cyrus55
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2019-06-02          198465


Bogman:
4020's have a starter key problem that does about what you're complaining about. I had a similar problem on my 2010 and didn't realize it at the time. Seems that the switch is supposed to send power to the starter solenoid, but it is quite a few amps. The fix is to install a Ford starter solenoid between the key and the tractor starter solenoid just to send the power to the actual starter solenoid. Ford solenoid takes less power to actuate than the one on the starter. Use the Ford solenoid to power the little wire to the JD solenoid.
Google replacement kits for JD 4020 starters. Many will come with the Ford type solenoid as part of the kit. Since your starter works on the bench, this seems to be the fix you're needing. ....

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Cyrus55
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2019-06-02          198466


Note on the Ford Starter solenoid:
I mentioned earlier about solenoid problems. Make sure you buy from a reputable dealer on the Ford type solenoid. I purchased one from O'Reilly's and it quite after 6 months, but had a lifetime warranty. Changed it twice more.......Just got one from AutoZone which I haven't used, yet.
I use them on lawn mowers and anything I need a relay on. I've found they are the same price as the little ones on most lawn tractors. They, by the way, also fail on a regular basis. ....

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parks009
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2019-06-02          198467


Well here we are working on a Sunday, so I tested the starter correctly and the gears popped out and spun.

After talking to some old farmers and a diesel mechanic that does a lot of tractor work for the farmers out here. He said the starter could have been gunked up and just needed a good blast of PB or the solenoid might not be working and spinning properly when the starter is under strain, like when it engages the flywheel.

Now I checked the teeth on the flywheel and they donít look bad and I also turned the flywheel. There was good compression and I could feel it turning the pistons. So thankfully its probably not something worse but something wrong in the starter itself.

I am going to go ahead and order a new starter and see what that does, so I can get back to the fuel choking out issue.

I have uploaded some videos and pictures. Hopefully it will help someone else in the future.
....

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parks009
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2019-06-02          198468


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parks009
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2019-06-02          198469


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parks009
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2019-06-02          198470


These bottom two things to try out were given on other forums, so I am going to try them out. Just including for people to know if they have the same issues.

"watching your video shows the solenoid is working ok, the bendix drive is extending and the armature is spinning as it should, now there is one more test you can do before you spend your money on a new starter and that is to lock the starter in a good vice and hook up the power cables and spin the starter, -- and with a piece of hardwood about 2x2 size, load up the bendix drive teeth with the wood, there is a one way clutch in the bendix that allows the armature to not over spin when the engine fires up, by loading the bendix, this tests the one way clutch to see if the clutch is holding, after time, they do slip.

If the bendix clutch is slipping, then the bendix can be replaced instead of the whole starter motor."

"While you have it off, Take the end off of the starter(opposite the gear end) and clean the carbon out of the brushes and off of the commutator where the brushes transfer current to the rotor. Shorted/messed up brushes, and or a weak connection to the starter could also cause stuttering/chattering. Voltage is good, you turn key to start, solenoid tries to engage, short or bad connection causes voltage drop, solenoid disengages, voltge surges, solenoid re-engages, repeat..."

Including so someone in future can us it to help troubleshoot ....

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parks009
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2019-06-02          198471


So I took it apart as advised cleaned every connection I could find, used a dang dremel wire wheel and shined all connections up. And here is new starter test.

Haven't tried testing with block of wood yet ....


Link:   New starter test

 
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parks009
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2019-06-02          198472


So I took it apart as advised cleaned every connection I could find, used a dang dremel wire wheel and shined all connections up. And here is new starter test.

Haven't tried testing with block of wood yet ....


Link:   New starter test

 
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parks009
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2019-06-02          198473


So before i forgot i wanted to share a few videos so future people can look and maybe it'll help them out with the starter. Take them with a grain of salt, tractor is in the field and I don't have a pretty shop lol. ....


Link:   Video 1 of 5

 
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parks009
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2019-06-02          198474


Video 2 of 5 ....


Link:   Video 2 of 5

 
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parks009
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2019-06-02          198475


Video 3 of 5 ....


Link:   Video 3 of 5

 
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parks009
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2019-06-02          198476


Video 4 of 5 ....


Link:   Video 4 of 5

 
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parks009
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2019-06-02          198477


Video 5 of 5 ....


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bogman
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2019-06-02          198478


Excellent videos.

"If the bendix clutch is slipping, then the bendix can be replaced instead of the whole starter motor."

I started to mention this as a possibility early on but decided not to muddy the waters, because if that is the problem you probably won't be able to get that part for a chinese starter.

On page 1 your second pic of the flywheel shows what looks like the star wheel on the starter hitting the flywheel a little low causing a little nick just below the teeth.

When new your bendix was strong enough to make the star wheel ride the flywheel until it jumped up into the teeth. Now it won't force it to engage. ....

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parks009
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2019-06-02          198479


I was thinking that too. After pulling it off testing it, re installing testing, pulling off again and cleaning every nook and cranny of the starter, and testing again I just don't think its kicking the gear out far enough to turn the flywheel. Either it doesn't have the balls so to speak or just not engaging. ....

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parks009
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2019-06-02          198480


Also I have looked for a bendex earlier. Honestly less of a headache and not much more of a cost to just get a complete starter.

Chinese parts are just a pain. ....

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bogman
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2019-06-02          198481


"Google replacement kits for JD 4020 starters. Many will come with the Ford type solenoid as part of the kit. Since your starter works on the bench, this seems to be the fix you're needing. "

Cyrus thanks for the tip on the 4020. I will definitely check it out. ....

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bogman
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2019-06-02          198482


"Also I have looked for a bendex earlier. Honestly less of a headache and not much more of a cost to just get a complete starter.

Chinese parts are just a pain."

Yep, I agree ....

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Cyrus55
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2019-06-03          198484


Just watched your video #5. Your solenoid is not moving the gear out far enough to catch the flywheel. While watching an earlier video, where you bench tested the starter, you can see the gear doesn't come out all the way to the end of the shaft. That was video #2, I think.

Last time I checked the solenoid for that starter was about half price of the whole starter assembly.

Still, if you can disassemble the solenoid, and clean the iron core, it might work properly. I remember having my solenoid off, but I do not remember what I did after that.........memory is a terrible thing to lose....... I know I've had that problem with a starter, as most starters now work like that. ....

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parks009
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2019-06-03          198485


I talk to a old timer tractor repair guy here that does tractor work for area farmers. He thinks he may have a starter that will work so when I get my hands on it we will see lol. No worries my memory isn't the beat anymore either. ....

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Cyrus55
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2019-06-03          198486


Good luck!
If you're successful, post the brand and part number, if possible.
I'm thinking the starter that I'm thinking of with problems, was for a Toyota. I remember working on one Toyota solenoid and fixing it. I think the second one had the same symptoms, like yours, but it was a "daily driver" and I didn't want to risk a problem, so opted for a rebuilt. I may have the two Toyota's in reverse order..........
The one I repaired had a bad contact and wasn't fully retracting the gear to engage the flywheel. It was intermittant, like the second one. ....

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parks009
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2019-06-03          198487


Alright got a new starter and yep it was something wrong with the old starter ....


Link:   New starter test

 
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parks009
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2019-06-03          198488


Hopefully someone in future gets some help from this thread. Ill be making a separate thread on how i troubleshot and fixed a fuel issue. Thank you everyone that help me with this. ....

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bogman
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2019-06-03          198489


Glad you got it fixed and thanks for the update! ....

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Cyrus55
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2019-06-03          198490


Always glad to hear someone has fixed the problem and is back at work. ....

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parks009
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2019-06-03          198491


Ya definitely, dang thing was making me pull what little hair out I have left. ....

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kthompson
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2020-05-18          199196


parks, what proved to be the problem? Just wondering.

bogman, for a person asking where the mechanics were did a great job. ....

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parks009
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2020-05-19          199205


Quote:
Originally Posted by kthompson | view 199196
parks, what proved to be the problem? Just wondering. bogman, for a person asking where the mechanics were did a great job. ...


It was the internals of the starter. Given the price to take it and rebuild it I was able to just buy a new one for just as cheap.

I did take it to a friend which has family that rebuild these things. Only information I got was internally connections where not connecting properly. ....

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jebass
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2020-05-19          199207


Thanks for asking.

It was a bad ground wire from the starter to battery. ....

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bogman
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2020-10-06          199728


Quote:
Originally Posted by kthompson | view 199196
parks, what proved to be the problem? Just wondering. bogman, for a person asking where the mechanics were did a great job.


Hi KT, I just noticed that there were more replies to this thread.
I was referring to a poster by the handle GregG, he seemed to know how to fix anything chinese tractor related. Why doesn't he post anymore? ....

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