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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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yocsr1
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 178 Terre Haute, Indiana
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2013-12-14          188455


Now that Greg helped me get the electrical lined out it's on to the 3pt problem. I bought a 2006 4 cyl. 404 with a loader and it has 53 hours on it. It has mostly sat and all outside. The guy raised the box blade and loaded it on my trailer. I got home and the 3pt won't work. The loader works fine. I checked the valve under seat. The fluid level is 3/4 between lines not screwed in. It's a 2 lever model. I've tried it every which way. The parts manual shows a drain plug lower left rear which mine doesn't have. Do I pull the lower hose off to drain? Is there a filter or screen that would effect the 3pt and not the loader? Anyone have any ideas! Larry.

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2013-12-14          188456


You may be using the wrong lever. There should be two rear lift control levers to the right of the operator seat. The outer lever I'm pretty sure is the draft control. The inner one is the position control (lift/lower). You only use the draft control lever in conjunction with a ground engagement implement such as a plow, box blade, ripper, etc. The draft control lever is used to set the max depth to which these implements "dig". When that level is reached, the hitch automatically raises back up to the level preset by the lever. Any other time, the draft lever is to remain in the OFF position. Only problem is, I don't remember on that tractor whether OFF is full up or full down. You'll have to try both ways. Any other position than OFF will disrupt normal operation of the position control.

Alternatively, the guy that loaded your tractor may have locked the implement up in the air with the flow control valve (don't ask me why). Like most compact tractors, that valve should be the knob in front of and just below the operator seat. If that gets closed when an implement is off the ground, no fluid can get back into the sump. Hence, the position control lever "appears" not to work.

//greg// ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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yocsr1
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 178 Terre Haute, Indiana
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2013-12-15          188469


Greg, I tried the levers like you said and the valve under the seat. It still won't work. The loader works fine so the pump has to be ok. The guy raised it to load it and all I did was haul it home and it hasn't worked since. If I need to replace o rings will I have to remove the seat section? Do I need to remove the whole unit or just take the top cover off to do it? Looks like the seat section has to come off either which way. Larry ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2013-12-16          188475


I know nothing about a Foton tractor, but a thought occurred. Could there perhaps be some sort of a mechanical safety transport latch holding the blade up like on a backhoe boom that has to be released manually before the 3 pt. will come down?

Frank. ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2013-12-16          188476


Quote:
Originally Posted by yocsr1 | view 188469
Greg, I tried the levers like you said and the valve under the seat. It still won't work. The loader works fine so the pump has to be ok. The guy raised it to load it and all I did was haul it home and it hasn't worked since. If I need to replace o rings will I have to remove the seat section? Do I need to remove the whole unit or just take the top cover off to do it? Looks like the seat section has to come off either which way. Larry
First off, I'm still not sure if it's permanently stuck in the up position - or if you let it down when you got home, and it won't raise up again. Let's start there.

//greg// ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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yocsr1
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 178 Terre Haute, Indiana
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2013-12-16          188479


It's down and won't raise. Larry. ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2013-12-17          188480


Got it. Owner must have used a lever or another tractor to raise the box for show. Turned the knob under the seat to lock it there. Once you let it down, all the fluid rushed back into the sump.

Odds are it's lift cylinder ring/seals. Not an expensive job, nor is it difficult. But it can be messy. I've never done a lift cylinder on a Foton, but the procedure is reasonably similar among Chinese tractors. Technically you should be able to do it with the seat in place, but it's your decision once you see how much working clearance you've got. Drain the sump first. The cylinder should then be accessible by removing the rear (and possibly front) sump plate(s). At that point it should become clear how to get the piston out of the cylinder. Strip off the old ring(s) and seal(s), install new, clean out any residuals that might contaminate the fresh fluid, reassemble.

//greg// ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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yocsr1
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 178 Terre Haute, Indiana
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2013-12-17          188481


Thanks Geg, I ordered a rebuild kit from Thomas at Affordable Tractor ($35). While I was at it I ordered all new filters for air,oil, and hydraulics. I figured as long as it sat would probably be for the best. It looks like the seat section will have be removed as there's no clearance. All the kids coming in for xmas this weekend, between getting things ready, the event, and aftermath it will probably be a week or so before I can start on it. I may have more questions after that. Thank you and have a good holiday. Larry. ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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yocsr1
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 178 Terre Haute, Indiana
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2013-12-28          188542


Well I got the rebuild kit. First go around I just replaced the main cylinder O ring and wiper, put it back together and got nothing. Second time I removed the carb plate and main block and took apart what I could get and cleaned and sprayed down with WD and blew it all out, and still nothing. The parts book is different than what I actually have. There's a oneway valve the book shows seat, slide, spring and mine is seat, spring, slide. The springs too short to work the way the book shows. I used air to move the piston out to where I could get the O ring on so I know the piston moves. I'm at a loss!!! Larry. ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2013-12-29          188544


Unfortunately Chinese tractor manufacturers are quite poor at keeping their manuals current with changes they make to the machinery. This is likely an issue you'll have to work out with the service department at a Foton dealership.

I am unclear as to what you're calling a "one-way valve" though. Where specifically is this located, and what (do you think) is its function?

//greg// ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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yocsr1
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 178 Terre Haute, Indiana
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2013-12-29          188550


The one-way is a large version of a needle seat. It located between the distributor block and distributor plate and looks like the main hydraulic flow for the system to the piston. The way it is in there is the only way it can work even the book shows different. My distributor block is different from the book, mostly on the return side. The book shows parts to be removed from both sides and mine has no opening on one side. Larry. ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2013-12-30          188557


Actually, I think that is a generic diagram that shows two possible locations for that device. Calling it a needle valve suggests that it's the flow control valve. But the usual location for that particular hand-operated valve is on the front facing end of the hydraulic sump. When sitting on the seat, you'd typically reach down between your calves to turn it. The purpose is to divert flow to a remote hydraulic port. It's an either/or proposition; turned one way the flow operates the TPH, turned the other way it sends fluid to the remote port. Obviously, when fluid is diverted - the TPH won't work.

But the FT404s I've worked on had two pair of independent remotes, each controlled by dedicated open-center control valves. They worked independent of the flow control valve. Does your tractor by any chance have FIVE hydraulic remotes? If yes, that knob may be associated with the fifth.

//greg// ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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yocsr1
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 178 Terre Haute, Indiana
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2013-12-30          188560


I have five remotes. I think I might have located the problem. I started breaking lines apart and I pulled the fuel cut off so I could motor engine over. I'm not getting fluid to the 3pt. box, so I traced line to the multi-valve and broke the line - no fluid. The line from there goes to a block on the backside of the loader controls before going to pump. There's a pressure valve in that block and I think its stuck. I'll try to free it or replace, this is a part from the loader company. I'll let you know what I come up with. Larry. ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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yocsr1
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 178 Terre Haute, Indiana
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2014-01-01          188568


Well the flow stops at this valve. With it removed fluid shoots out when I motor it over and when I put it in nothing past it except to the loader. It's called a pressure beyond valve made by Cross. So far I haven't been able to locate one. Tommy at Affordable said I can't get by capping it off. The guy at Spirit had me send a picture of it to them. I couldn't find it online so Thursday I'll start checking with local hydraulic shops. I've had the valve soaking for two days in PB Blaster and still stuck tight. Larry. ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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richwaugh
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 96
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2014-01-01          188569


Larry,

Try soaking it in a 50/50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid (ATF). I've found this to be far superior to absolutely any other penetrating oil sold anywhere at any price. ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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yocsr1
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 178 Terre Haute, Indiana
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2014-01-05          188589


I bought some acetone today and mixed with atf will see what it does. In the mean time I had a local hydraulic shop send a pic of the valve to cross and will get it in 10 days. It was $26.75, figured it would be more than that. Larry. ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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richwaugh
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 96
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2014-01-05          188599


The time you'll save makes that a bargain. ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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yocsr1
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 178 Terre Haute, Indiana
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2014-01-05          188606


Well I was planning on leaving the seat and deck and everything off until I got the valve incase that's not the only problem I've got. Plans changed!! We got dumped on today with over a foot of heavy wet snow.It wouldn't roll on the back blade and would stick and pile up. I stuck my Ford three times. The neighbor brought his tractor over to pull me out and stuck it twice. I gave up and went in the garage and put the Foton back together. I'll use the loader tomorrow to dig out. We're hitting 33 below zero tonight with 35 mile an hour winds. We haven't had weather like this in over twenty years. Got the Buck stove cranked up - it's almost 80 degrees in the house, makes you not want to go out. Larry. ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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yocsr1
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 178 Terre Haute, Indiana
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2014-01-06          188609


I got the Foton all back together. I've had the valve soaking in a 50/50 mix with acetone and atf. It didn't free it up. Got the new valve ordered today, it'll take 7-10 days to get it. Used the loader to dig out today, sure doesn't work like the back blade. The four wheel drive is nice. Didn't get stuck at all. Larry. ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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yocsr1
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 178 Terre Haute, Indiana
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2014-01-11          188644


I got the new valve and put it in. Still no 3pt, but I am getting flow past the valve now. I'm going to have to tear 3pt box down again. I had part of the distributor block I couldn't get apart, it's pressed in. I'll take it to a hydraulic shop, surely they would have the tools to get it apart. Larry. ....

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Foton 404 tractor 3pt does not lift

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yocsr1
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 178 Terre Haute, Indiana
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2014-01-25          188743


GREG,
Just wanted to let you know I finally got the 3pt working. The hydraulic shop rebuilt the distributor block. I put it in and it still didn't work. I dropped the fluid level down till it was just above the intake and took the distribution plate off and started the tractor up. I was getting very little flow, but noticed I had high flow out of the lower hose at the back of the tank. I wasn't sure at first what to do. I finally wrote down the valve numbers and called cross valves. They pulled the valves up and we traced lines. The guy had two lines hooked up wrong. I swapped them around and it works perfectly. I checked and double checked before I did - didn't want to blow the pump. My buddy actually bought the tractor and said the guy raised and lowered it - there's no way. The guy must have jacked it up and locked the valve. I know when I got it from my buddy the valve was locked closed. I could tell someone had taken the 3pt box apart because two fender bolts (which are a bear to get back in) were missing and the main cylinder O ring and wiper looked new. He couldn't figure it out and dumped the tractor. Even after all this I still feel pretty good. I paid $3600.00 and it only has now 57 hours on it. The hour meter is working, it had 53 when I got it. In the process the fuel shut off cable broke and I need a couple gaskets which are on there way from Thomas at Affordable. Then I get it all put back together. I'm happy now. Thank You. Larry. ....

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