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snow plow wiring

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ridetoslide
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12 Indiana
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2010-12-12          175726


I just picked up a used snow plow. It is a john deere plow with a small hydraulic pump and cylinder on it. The pump has a wiring connector plug-in containing 2 wires. Can someone tell me how to wire this up? Or have a picture with a diagram on it? Does the dealers carry this wiring harmess plus switch? Oh, it is going on a hpx. Thanks in advance.

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2010-12-13          175727


Ridetoslide,

The hydraulic pump is powered by the battery on your machine. There is a positive wire and a negative wire.

One wire goes to the power side of the switch, then to the positive terminal on your battery......usually the red wire. The other wire goes back to the ground.

It's super-easy to wire. You'll want to run the power wire first through a fuse, then to a switch, then out to the pump. The ground wire goes straight back to the machine's ground connection.

If you want to get a bit more fussy with this, you can tap into the accessory power wire on your ignition switch (I'd go this route), so as to prevent the plow from operating when the ignition key is off.

If you could provide us with the wire colors, we'll be able to help you. There is no need to have a wiring diagram.

Hope this helps.

Joel ....

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ridetoslide
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12 Indiana
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2010-12-13          175728


Thanks for the reply! I'll have to look at the wires in the morning but I'm almost sure neither of the wires that go to the female plug are red. Your method of wiring sounds pretty straight forward. On the pump outlet ports, it says UP and DN. Will the pump wired as you mention work or will I need some sort of 3 way rocker switch? Seems like I would need to power the pump one way for up, the other way for down. I would like to put the switch buy the headlight switch, is the dealer only place to get one that size, what about say radio shack? Sorry for more questions! ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2010-12-13          175729


Ridetoslide,

It sounds to me as though you have a bi-directional pump. In other words, fluid will flow out of of the pump in either clockwise or counter-clockwise pump rotation.

When the pump rotation changes direction, the fluid flows out from the other port. (out the "up" port in one direction......out the "down" port when spinning the opposite direction)

This is a very simple electrical circuit. You'll need a double pole - double throw switch. It is abbrevitated as DPDT.

For outdoor use, I highly suggest a good marine grade switch. They're a bit more expensive, but they sure are worth the investment. A marine grade switch will provide you with (not entirely waterproof) weather resistant operation. Rain, snow, dew, car washes.....these things will kill a cheap switch. Get yourself a good DPDT switch. I prefer the switches made by Blue Sea. (See Ebay Item Number: 190468904491)

You'll want a momentary switch. That is......when you press the switch to raise the plow, you'll be able to let off the switch to stop it. When you go to lower the plow, you'll depress the switch in the other direction until you've lowered the plow to the desired height, then simply let off the switch to kill the power. There is no power to the pump unless you have depressed the switch in one direction or the other........and only for as long as you depress the switch.

The switch I listed above will handle 20 amps of 12 volt DC power. That should be more than enough to run your little pump. Just be sure to use a heavier gauge wire to power your pump. Smaller gauge wires may not be able to handle the current. My wire chart suggests 16 gauge wire for a 20 Amp DC circuit......unless the run is especially long. If you go over 20 feet in length, use 14 gauge wire.

You'll want to use stranded wire for flexibility reasons.....allowing you to route it and bend it to follow the plow frame....etc.

Please see the wiring schematic I posted below. That will get you going.

If you have any further questions, please stop in again.

Joel ....


Link:   DC Motor Reversing Circuit

 
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snow plow wiring

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2010-12-13          175730


Ridetoslide,

You probably have a pump that looks similar to the one I posted in the link below.

If it looks like yours, you're all set with the information I provided above.

Joel

....


Link:   Surplus Center Item# 9-7550

 
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snow plow wiring

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bigknobbies
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 17 Near Chicago
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2010-12-13          175735


Is it the Powertach plow? If so I can take some pictures and try and get you a copy of the install manual for mine.

....

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ridetoslide
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12 Indiana
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2010-12-13          175741


My pump is similar but not exact to the one you linked. I found a picture of the plow if I can figure out how to show it or link to it. Looks like I need to find one of those switch's then it's off to the races! I'd like to put that switch in one of the blank spots next to the headlight switch. Are the sizes pretty standard?
http://www.machinefinder.com/images/machines/90/1482390/1759475_huge.jpg ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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snow plow wiring

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ridetoslide
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12 Indiana
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2010-12-13          175742


Bigknobbies, It is not a powertach plow. Wish it was though! Thanks for the offer of taking pictures! We just got a bunch of snow and of course high winds so I'd like to get this thing going. ....

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snow plow wiring

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2010-12-13          175743


Ridetoslide,

Ok...the picture you posted shows a much larger pump than I thought it would have had. I don't believe a switch, by itself, will handle the current your pump motor will draw. You're going to need a relay.

Click on the link below. You'll see a set of reversing relays, contained in a housing, with a remote control attached to it. The relay assembly allows for current draw of up to 200 amps.

If that remote will work for you, you'll have a very easy job of providing power to the relay.

This might be a better choice for your application, and for only about 75 bucks to your door.

Joel ....


Link:   Hydraulic Pump Reversing Relay Assembly

 
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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2010-12-13          175744


Ridetoslide,

I'd really like to have the model number from the pump assembly. If I can come up with a match, I'll be able to provide a lot more information.

It's possible that you have a reversing solenoid on that pump......I just can't tell from the picture. If you have a reversing solenoid, we'll need to start all over on this project.

Joel ....

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snow plow wiring

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ridetoslide
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12 Indiana
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2010-12-13          175745


You sure have been alot of help to me working on this, I greatly appreciate it!
Looking at the picture of the remote and relay, would I just wire directly from battery a positive (hot) and ground wire to (2) of those big connectors and then run the small wires to the pump? If so, then that does look easy! Have you ever ordered from this company before?
....

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ridetoslide
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12 Indiana
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2010-12-13          175746


I'll see if I can find some numbers-info on the pump. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2010-12-13          175747


Ridetoslide,

Yes.....Surplus Center is a very good company. It's hard to beat their prices, too.

I'm very curious to know more about that pump of yours. Maybe a close-up picture of just the pump.....or even a few pictures of it......that would be great.

We'll get this done.....I promise.

Joel ....

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ridetoslide
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12 Indiana
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2010-12-13          175749


on the motor it has this: CIM
PD-50F-1008 12V DC
414058
IGN PRO E-186696
062005

There are no markings at all on the hydraulic pump. I have looked and looked for info on the motor, very little luck. I'll see if I can get a close up of it. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2010-12-13          175753


I prolly missed it...but if there is only one switch--you can choose only one function: either to make the plow go left or right--OR--up and down, but not both. ....

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snow plow wiring

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ridetoslide
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12 Indiana
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2011-01-08          176289


I'm making progress, I think. I ordered a switch and 2 relays from the dealer. The switch only has 3 spade connectors, not like the one you linked to ( double pole dbl throw). The relays are the same: pin 85 and pin 86 power the coil, and pin 30 has it marked as common, pin 87 is normally closed and pin 87a is open. I have tried all kinds of combinations and can not figure out how to wire this thing. I wished it was like the link you sent over on the first page. Have any clue how to put 2 relays and a switch in there? I'm figuring one relay is up, the other is down, then somehow polarity has to change to reverse motor. This wiring is gonna drive me nuts :) ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2011-01-08          176292


Ridetoslide,

Thanks for stopping back. I was wondering how things turned out for you. Sorry to hear you're still having problems. I'll see if I can help.

Common......think of that as a ground connection. Fasten that wire to a ground point.

The other two wires are for Direct Current power (DC). One is hot, the other is neutral. That will make the motor turn in one direction. Switch the polarities on those two wires......make the neutral hot and the hot neutral......the motor now spins in the opposite direction.

Your relays are in the circuit for only one purpose. The current draw by the motor is too much for the switch to handle. Your switch, therefore, is only for powering the coils on the relays.

I'm not sure how your switch is labeled. Do you have an 'up' and 'down' switch? Maybe you have two switches?

You can wire the switches to reverse by simply changing the wires. If, for example, you want to raise the blade but the blade goes down, just switch the wires around.

I have a Lorenz snowblower with a DC reversing motor on the chute. It works under the same principle. Lorenz has a nice wiring diagram on their website. I'll post a link to it below.

Maybe this wiring diagram will help you.

After clicking on the link below, scroll down to Page 2. You'll see a very nice schematic there.

Hope this helps.

Joel ....


Link:   Lorenz DC Reversing Circuit

 
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ridetoslide
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12 Indiana
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2011-01-08          176294


I'll reply quick then take a peek at your link. I have 1 switch that is for up and down. It is spring loaded so depress for say up, then relaese and it goes to the middle position.

85 87a 87
} /
} |
86 30

This is how the relay is, sorry for the lousy symbology. The coil is energized by 85 & 86. 87 is held normally closed until you give it some juice, then it goes over to 87a.


My switch like I metioned has 3 connections marked 4 on the top,5 in the middle, 6 on the bottom. Now I'm gonna go look the link over. Thanks for your assistance!






....

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JD-855-in-WI
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 36 Wisconsin
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2011-01-08          176295


Sorry, but those single pole relays are not going to allow you create a reversing circuit for your motor. You will need double pole relays to reverse the motor leads.

With the switch you have the 12V + would go to the center switch contact and one coil lead from a relay say "U" would be wired to a open contact on the switch. The other coil lead from "U" would be wired to chassis ground.

The other switch contact would be wired to a coil lead on the second relay say "D" and the other coil lead from "D: would be wired to chassis ground.

Now when the power is on and the switch is operated in one direction it routes power to one of the relays and when you operate the switch in the other direction the other relay will pick up. Releasing the switch it should return to center and no relay will be picked up. If you thinhk this has helped let me know, I can explain the to you how to wire the relays and motor.

One problem the type of circuit you are trying to create is the relay will not drop out as fast as you change directions on your switch. The result is both relays will try pick up at the same time, shorting your suppy voltage to ground. On this type of circuit we would normally interlock the relays electrically, but that is another story.

If I could figure out how to post a photo I'd draw it up and post it.....

....

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JD-855-in-WI
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 36 Wisconsin
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2011-01-08          176296


Seeing you are doing a home brew project. Check "Surplus Center" They have an item 11-1569, that will do the complete job for you. Just make sure the relays have 12 volt coils, you could use your swich in place of the pendant if you wanted to, but I bet the 2 pushbuttons are interlocked mechnically to prevent picking up the up/down circuits at the same time. This should help I hope. www.surpluscenter.com ....

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JD-855-in-WI
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 36 Wisconsin
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2011-01-08          176303


Yep, it's 12 volts, capable of 150 amps. It's a little big, but will do the job and there is a wiring diagram included.


http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?catname=&qty=1&item=11-1569 ....

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ridetoslide
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12 Indiana
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2011-01-08          176306


Thanks for the info. I may have to go that route if I can't gett this to work. The switch and relays I purchased were from the Deere dealer and on the print for the JD plow. The print showed 2 relays, one switch. I spoke with one of the technicians very briefly about trying to get a schematic and he said wire it with a 3 way switch in a house in mind. All of the prints they have are on a computer and he didn't have the ability to print. ....

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JD-855-in-WI
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Posts: 36 Wisconsin
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2011-01-08          176313


Take a look at my photo #6, I drew this up quick, this may help you. Notice the 2 relays each use 2 normally open contacts. I would put a auto reset circuit breaker in the line that feeds this. Don't know how big the motor is or how much power it draws. In the up mode, the + is connected to the bottom of the motor and the ground connected to the top. Down, the + is connected to top of the motor and the ground to the bottom of the motor. As you can see if you move the switch from up to down too fast the relays may overlap control and flash over. ....

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JD-855-in-WI
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Posts: 36 Wisconsin
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2011-01-09          176321


I've added a photo 7, which will work using the relays you have. It will work, but has a high potential for flash over. The Red arrows would indicate the current flow for UP. The green arrows would indicate current flow for DOWN. I didn't understand your numbering for the contacts on you relays, but they are what is referred to as a form "C". If you can look inside the relay, the moving contact would be the terminal that goes to the motor leads. The normally closed and normally opens should be wired like shown. If you get it wrong the motor may run all the time or not at all. Be sure to use an auto reset automotive circuit breaker in the hot lead. There is nothing worse than having the parts and not being able to get it to work. Iím currently building a 300 PSI PTO driven tree sprayer and adding hydraulic tilt to my snow blower chute. G'day ....

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ridetoslide
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12 Indiana
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2011-01-10          176336


Thanks for the help! You are right that there is nothing worse to have the parts and can't get something to work! Well, today I was able to confer with a electrician and told him what I wanted to do. He scratched hi noggin, then began dawing. I whipped out your print and he said " thats it!" He told me what leads to hook where etc. I got home, follwed your print and wired it up. It works great! I can't thank all of those that helped me enough; thanks for taking the time from your schedule to help a stranger! If I can repay the advice some time I certainly will. ....

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