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John Deere Tractor Injector Solenoid will not engage

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ronknorton
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3 Atlanta GA
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2010-02-06          168436


Hi everyone I just joined the site today. I have read some post and learned a great deal about my new (used 23 hours old) 790 4 wheel Drive. I just purchased the unit and it was not running. It appears to have a fuel problem. I took the fuel solenoid out and applied 12 volts to the primary winding and it worked so I re installed it into the tractor. I then took my meeter and checked voltage going to the three wires comming from the the solenoid timer delay module (I belive the part # is The timer part number is M803344) and White to Black had no voltage but the Red to Black had 7.6 volts. I then ran a hot wire directly from the battery to the white lead on the solenoid and the tractor cranked and ran fine. I only applied full voltage to the winding for about 10 seconds just long enough to crank the tractor. I have several questions.

1) Where is the solenoid timer delay module located. I know it is under the black cover that the key swith is mounted in but which of the 5 or 6 relays is it.

2) Does any one have a link where I can down load a picture or circuit wiring diagram or preferably the trouble shooting manual.

3) Does any one know if the module could just be stuck and might be able to repair it or not.

4) I called the local dealers around Georgia and no one has the solenoid timer delay module in stock so if I am going to have to order one does some one have a discount parts site on the internet that you can point me to.

Thanks so much in advance for your help. Just a country boy from Georgia that knows just enough to get myself in trouble. :-)




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John Deere Tractor Injector Solenoid will not engage

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1539 Moravia, NY
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2010-02-07          168437


Ron welcome to site. There are some smart guys here. JDGREEN will probably weigh in.

Not sure if 790 same as early 4xxx series but here is a thread that has solid info posted but jdgreen.

http://tractorpoint.com/cgi-bin/tractorreview/fullThread.pl?parentnum=162804&catname=John%20Deere%20Review&catcode=JDU&filter=#164555

Not sure if will help or not. There are several 790 owners here.

Not a lot of activity on weekends but I suspect some one will weigh in.

Harvey ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
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John Deere Tractor Injector Solenoid will not engage

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jdgreen
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 231 Maryland
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2010-02-07          168451


Ron, welcome to the forum! The control module for the fuel solenoid is larger than the other relays. It is approx. 2" X 3" X 1" thick. It has a short harness with a 10 pin connector attaching it to the main harness. You don't mention a serial number, but there are two different schematics depending on serial number. There are two sets of windings in the solenoid. One engages the solenoid. The controller only sends voltage for about 1 second to engage it. Then the hold in winding keeps it engaged. Both windings require 12 volts. When the key is turned on, You should get a 1 second voltage to pull in winding. and a constant 12 volts to the hold in winding. All of this depends first on having transmission in neutral, pto in neutral, and having the seat switch activated. Make sure all of the other neutral switches and seat switches are working before you buy the module. Here is a theory of operation of the module:
Control Module Operation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Function:
To operate as a safety interlock to control safe starting, operation and shutoff of the machine engine.

Theory of Operation:
The A1 Time Delay control module contains logic circuitry that controls voltage and ground circuits for the K2 fuel relay (voltage and ground circuits), Y2 fuel solenoid (hold-in voltage) and the K1 start relay (voltage).

Control voltage is provided to the control module by the S1 key switch (650 Wht/Blu), S2 seat switch with operator on seat (504 Yel/Red) or the S2 Seat switch in the defeat position (600 Blu/Blk) and the S4 Transmission Neutral switch and the S3 PTO switch (603 Blu/Red) both in the Off position.

The control module has a permanent ground circuit through the 108 Blk wire, X4 connector and 100 Blk wires to frame ground.

The control module operates with an IF - THEN logic where combinations of voltage inputs (IF's) to the control module produce combinations of output voltages and a ground path (THEN's).

IF voltage is provided to the control module by the key switch being placed in the run position, and IF the seat switch is defeated and the S3 PTO Switch is Off;

Or IF voltage is provided to the control module by the key switch being place in the run position, and IF the operator is On the seat;

THEN voltage is supplied to the fuel solenoid hold-in coil (holding the fuel solenoid open), and fuel solenoid pull-in coil (for 1 second) providing the requirements to keep the machine engine running.

To check or test operation of the control module, see:

See "Cranking Circuit Operation".

See "Fuel Supply Operation".

See "Engine Shutoff Circuit Operation".

The fuel shutoff solenoid hold-in coil is held in the energized state by voltage provided from the control module (655, 656 Grn/Wht).

The control module contains a 0.5 second delay timer, controlling the voltage to the hold-in coil.

The timer is activated if the operator rises off the seat and will stop voltage to the hold-in coil, de-energizing the coil, closing the fuel solenoid valve and stopping the engine.

The control module has 10 wires to the X4 connector.

Inputs:

A (Red) - voltage in from the key switch (904 Blk/Grn) with the switch in either the start or run position.

B (Org) - voltage in from the S2 Seat Switch defeat contacts (600 Blu/Blk) with defeat activated.

C (Yel) - voltage in from the seat switch (504 Yel/Red) with the switch closed (operator on seat).

D (Blu) - voltage in from the rear PTO circuit given that the rear PTO switch is in the off position and the Transmission neutral switch is in neutral (603 Blu/Red).

E (Brn) - (SN -790000) voltage in from the S2 Seat Switch (606 Blu/Yel) with the switch in the defeat position.

(SN 790001-) voltage IN from the gear range neutral switch with the switch in the NEUTRAL position (given that the mid PTO switch is off (closed) provides voltage to the gear range neutral switch).

J (Wht) - voltage in from the fuel relay contacts (650 Wht/Blu) which also provides input voltage to the Y2 Fuel Solenoid Shutoff pull-in coil (651 Wht/Blu). This voltage starts the control module internal timer (1 second) which controls the ground circuit path (I) for the fuel relay coil (658 Lt/Grn).

Outputs:

F (Pnk) - voltage out to the fuel relay coil (655 Grn/Wht) and fuel shutoff solenoid hold-in coil (656 Grn/Wht). This is a timed circuit which is shut off after 0.5 second if the operator rises off the seat or leaves the seat.

G (Grn) - voltage out to the K1 start relay coil (605 Blk/Red). Key switch must be in the start position for voltage to be supplied to the start relay contacts.

I (Gry) - ground circuit for the fuel relay coil (658 Lt/Grn). This is a timed circuit which when activated provides a ground path for 1 second. The 1 second time allows the fuel relay coil to energize, close the relay contacts and provide voltage to the fuel solenoid pull-in coil.

Ground:

Gnd (Blk) - provides a permanent ground circuit (108 Blk) for the control module
....

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John Deere Tractor Injector Solenoid will not engage

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ronknorton
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3 Atlanta GA
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2010-02-07          168457


Thanks everyone for the responses. JD GREEN you mentioned all the interlocks on the unit including the seat. Two questions first do you have to be in the seat when cranking the unit even if you have the unit out of gear?

Second I thought those interlocks would disable the starter circuit so that the engine will not turn over if the circuits are not true?

Any thoughts?

Thanks again for the help.

Ron ....

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John Deere Tractor Injector Solenoid will not engage

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jdgreen
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 231 Maryland
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2010-02-08          168481


Sorry if I mis-stated that operation. You are right. You can crank engine if shifter and pto are in neutral. The seat switch only will cause voltage to fuel solenoid to be interrupted if you leave the seat while in gear or pto is running. So, the neutral switch and pto switch works two ways. They can prevent cranking and also they can shut off fuel solenoid. ....

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John Deere Tractor Injector Solenoid will not engage

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wuntun
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5 United States georgia
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2011-03-25          177602


I have a few of these solenoid Switch FOR YANMAR 119653-77950 for sale. They are the same as woodwards,(JD supplier) purchased from the same company. These are new, $108.32 each and free shipping in United States. Actual shipping anywhere else. Email or pm if interested. ....

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John Deere Tractor Injector Solenoid will not engage

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lubedude
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2 louisiana
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2015-10-08          193845


I'm in need of a solenoid timer delay module for a JD790,,#M803344. Dealer's asking $215, looking to purchase aftermarket part.
not sure who makes this for them.
any help will be appreciated.
Eric
....

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