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Regrind over asphalt

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Hettric
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 133 MA
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2009-02-22          160510


Has anyone tried putting regrind (ground up asphalt) over a old asphalt driveway? My driveway is sand, in the thaw the sand turns to soup, 4-6 inches of regrind cured the problem. My neighbor's drive which I also use is old broken down asphalt. wondering if I put a layer of regrind over would it stay? It seems to be pretty much impermeable.
Thanks

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Regrind over asphalt

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2009-02-22          160514


My topcoat is what we call "stone dust" (finely ground stone) over a proper base, and soup-time is coming. Why is that? Someone told me it's because the ground's still frozen below the surface, preventing the liquid at the top from draining down. So if a layer of asphalt or concrete were put on top, why wouldn't that layer mush down too? ....

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Regrind over asphalt

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1539 Moravia, NY
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2009-02-22          160515


Just my $.02 the recycle will never stay on top of old blacktop with out some type of containment. If you can put some material on each side of driveway to lock the recycle in it might stay. As you put it in do not be afraid to offend a tree hugger and lightly spray kerosene or fuel oil on it as you put it in to rerelease the asphalt in it. Tread it in good with some type of tamp. ....

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Regrind over asphalt

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2009-02-22          160517


Basically you guys are on the right track about soup. Yes the ground is frozen, yes it won't take water, and yes it won't support weight.

Stone dust or crushed stone with fine particles will return to rock-solid--once dry. Anything with water as a lubricant or "loosener" will be soup or even be able to move once driven on, or just settle as the air pockets work their way out.

Concrete or any paving product will offer a better roadway if the base is dry and compacted.

You can drive over a pad of concrete over a wet base IF the concrete can withstand the weight and more importantly distribute the weight.

Asphalt is different in that it is inherently flexible, so you need an even better/stronger base to support it and the weight above it.

You can put grinds over anything. BUT unless you have a good base or put it on extremely thick so that it doesn't flex as much, it will crack even quicker and more than regular asphalt. And it should be spread as soon as possible before in congeals(sp) and returns to being like uncompacted asphalt. And mixing dirt with it while spreading nullifies the desired result as the particles will not stick together as well.

And at least in my area of metro Deeetroit, there are three types or grades of asphalt. The "homeowner grade" stuff is crap. Even weeds and grass can break through it from underneath. Some pavers will offer a special vegetation killer to prevent premature breakage for about $200.

Commercial applications have a thick base about 4" thick that is strong and has larger stones in it; the "top coat" isn't as strong, has smaller stone chips in it and can be easily stripped off when needed. And it should have a sprayed-on binder coat between layers, otherwise water will get between the layers and separate them.

The county south of us uses a flaked or chipped limestone (we have 5 quarries nearby who may have cut a deal on the stone) that they nicely spread on the roads. It's smoothed and compacted and then a liquid asphalt(?) is sprayed on it in the same fashion as a dust control truck. At first glance it looks like regular asphalt. It doesn't hold up to truck traffic--but then again what does?

Florida has a version of this but it uses crushed oyster shells. Saw it on TV's "This Old House".

In Mississippi on the Coast they put down as much as a 12-18" of the non-crushed oyster shells which amazingly make for a light-weight but extremely strong base. Then they put about 2-4 inches of crushed limestone. I saw many a 80,000lb truck drive over their driveways only giving an inch or so. BUT as soon as they drove off where it was not spread (like I did) they sank 2-3 feet immediately with "chocolate milk" bubbling up. No joke.

There is another version of this available in the eastern part and in the midwest of the US--in urban areas where dumps are scarce or cost-prohibitive, there were/are companies large and small that recycled asphalt roof shingles by running them through a standard wood chipper or grinder. The ground product is then just loaded onto trucks and spread like dirt. No coatings are needed. I assume the asphalt already in the shingles recombines to make the roadway surface. Nails were magnetically removed at the recycle site. ....

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Regrind over asphalt

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Hettric
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 133 MA
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2009-02-22          160523


I am surprised by the comments of the regrind recombining, I just spread it and that was it. It's not stuck together more like packed well. This is over bottomless fine sand. Where sand has mixed in(I didn't do the whole drive) it becomes less effective.
The soup syndrome; I picture like this, there is a frost layer below-above up to a 12" puddle that just happens to be full of dirt. Where I put the regrind-no puddle. Clearly it blocks the water, maybe the repelling effect of the asphalt/oil? Stone dust (tried on a small area) was ineffective.
Auerbach, Try the regrind, I would not have believed it would work as well as it has. ....

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Regrind over asphalt

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1539 Moravia, NY
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2009-02-23          160525


A lot of how your recycle will perform is what type of machine is used: a down cut or up cut. Yes you are correct if you spread it 2X thicker (minimun of about 4" any type) than the largest nominal size it will work fine.

I made an assumption the driveway was already at grade. You have to have some thing to lock in the edges.

I also failed to mention the use of calcium flakes spread in the material as it is leveled.

My drive around pond has over 8" it and has been in over 15 years it was put in over clay and topsoils. It is starting to show wheel ruts now. It will be worked over this year. I'll get some finely crushed from work spread at 2" use scarfire on box blade regrade then repack with truck. ....

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Regrind over asphalt

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2009-02-23          160526


I'm not sure why but power plant fly ash is sometimes used around here. I've never took a good look at it but some say it hardens like concreet after it settles. Whether it is a cost factor compared to crushed linestone or what? Maybe you guys know the skinny. ....

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Regrind over asphalt

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Hettric
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 133 MA
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2009-02-23          160551


Having mulled over the replies, Harvey, I think you are right if I somehow "contain" the regrind, it will work. You are correct that the drive is at (somewhat sunken) grade. What (cheap!) to build up along the edges? some areas are not a problem, walls,berm etc. Course some areas it will cause drainage issues if I raise the drive (never easy). Maybe just side berms of regrind will do the trick? ....

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Regrind over asphalt

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2009-02-23          160552


My buddy had about 40 yards of grindings dropped in his driveway. He didn't spread them right away. They sat for a few days in the summer sun and they started to recombine. He did a poor job of spreading it. A few years later he had me uise my backhoe to break it up. I could barely get through it to break it up. Once it was broken up- and respread it was never the same--always had ruts and soft spots. ....

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Regrind over asphalt

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Hettric
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 133 MA
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2009-02-24          160575


Wow that story hasn't made my day, I've a pile of yet to spread regrind for over a year now------- ....

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Regrind over asphalt

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1539 Moravia, NY
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2009-02-24          160577


I would try sometype of crusher run top soil blend. I would not be afraid to reuse millings that have sat for a year the asphalt has not disappeared it still there. The key is to regrind them or break up the chunks as much as possible. I would also try to break up the old drive as much as possible.

Just as a reference I have about 70,000 tons of millings in our yard. We crush them and add them back to asphalt. Our lab tests them often we have yet to lose any asphalt content unless we fail to keep them clean. Some piles are 25,000 tons plus and have been there for 6 years.

I would still recommend using kero or fuel oil to rerelease the ac. ....

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