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Water to the garage

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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2005-01-20          104555


Just a question for the plumbing folks out there.

Look at my #1 picture. You can see me standing between my house and new garage (about 25' distance) over where the gas line for the furnace runs (no grass). In the spring I would like to run a water line from the house to the garage. Could I run it next to the gas line, or should it be further away. How deep sould it be run to prevent freeze-up? Garage is allways kept above freezing in winter.

I just picked up my tractor from the dealer for a warranty repair (FEL float detent) and now have to wash the road salt off it before the rust demonds set to work.

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Water to the garage

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yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
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2005-01-20          104557


Most areas have specific codes about depth of water lines, gas and utilities. In our area we can call "Miss Dig" and they will locate all your underground stuff free allowing you to place additional stuff. They should also be able to tell you proper depths. I would think they should not be that close together so you don't disturb everything, anytime you need to add or repair. ....

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Water to the garage

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2005-01-20          104558


Here in eastern Iowa most water lines are 5 1/2 - 6 ft. deep, and you seldom hear of a feeze up. I think they call it "Iowa one call" around here, long as you call them a couple days ahead they'll come out and locate any nearby utilitys. Just something I finally learned after digging the yard up again to add something new. Plastic underground electrical conduit is real cheap, so the last couple times we've dug a water line or electic service across the yard just lay an empty 2-3 in. conduit in the trench along with whatever you're installing, someday it'll come in handy. Frank. ....

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Water to the garage

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-01-20          104577


Not a plumber but helped dig a few lines (septic) up. If you travel over the area with vehicals especially or clear the snow from the area regularily, I would go atleast 6'. where you are why take the chance for that extra foot or so. Also if you come up from the depths outside you should insulate it heavily. Anouther suggestion is, if you only go 3-4 foot down (which is dangerous) make sure you place 1-2" pink styrofoam over the top of the pipes maybe a foot or so wide, this will help keep the ground from freezing under the insulation.
Good luck ....

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Water to the garage

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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 677 central Maine
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2005-01-21          104633


AV8R
I like to have at least 5'. You might consider putting it in a 4" sewer and drain sch. 40. It is a lot easier to run a new line if ever need be. Or if
tou want to add something. The styrofoam is a good idea as well, for some insurance. It also marks your trench for future digging. I put it about a foot
down.
Are you coming up through your slab?Frost wall? ....

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Water to the garage

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7155 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-01-21          104636


The other thing is the plain old PITA regulations.

In many places you cannot run another underground utility, either a) within x feet of a gas line, or b) 90 to and crossing a gas line at any depth.

This is to prevent two very possible scenarios. One, somebody tries to dig up the 'other' utility and hits the gas line. Two, the gas company don't want to have to wait for the electric or anybody else if they have to dig up their pipe in an emergency, and they certainly don't want to risk hitting a buried electric cable if the gas line is leaking.

Best of luck. ....

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Water to the garage

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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2005-01-21          104638


Thanks for all the input. Murph hit the nail on the head with the regs. If I put a "permanent" water supply in the garage, I have to have a "permanent" drain tied into my septic. Not gonna do that.

To sum this idea up: Never Mind.

I'll do it on the next house and plan for it from the begining. Hot and cold water in the garage, in floor heat, bathroom, etc, etc... ....

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Water to the garage

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NHDaveD
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 71 New Hampshire
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2005-01-21          104641


All good input so far. The only thing that I could think to add would be to go to your local building inspector.

Explain what you are thinking of doing and see what the regulations are and find out what the minimum requirements are. I have found that the building inspectors, at least in my small town, are always very helpful.

They will be able to tell you if you need a permit (I know - that dreaded word) or not. They really are more concerned with your safety and the public's than with the revenue that the permits bring in.

Good Luck ....

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Water to the garage

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NHDaveD
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 71 New Hampshire
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2005-01-21          104642


Looks like we were typing at the same time and that you've reached a conclusion.

The next house? I shudder at the thought. My wife says that the only way we are moving is if we pick up the house and take it with us. ....

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Water to the garage

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kyvette
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 194 Central Kentucky
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2005-01-21          104643


AV8R, in Kentucky we typically bury water lines with 36" of cover. That would be too shallow for your area. Call your local water utility and ask for someone in engineering. Ask how deep they bury water service lines, this is the line from the main to the meter.

Installation in conduit is an excellent idea, I would recommend schedule 40 PVC.

You want a minimum of 10 ft of separation from the gas line or any other underground utility.

In Kentucky we have a "BUD" (before you dig) one call system that is mandated by state law, before you dig. However, utilities will only locate those facilities which belong to them. If its after the meter it probably won't be located.
Dave ....

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Water to the garage

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7155 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2005-01-21          104644


There is an alternative, depending on where you live.

In my case it is just too far from the house to the shop, about 500', so what I did was basically put a second well in for the shop.

You are not likely looking for potable water, I wasn't, just to wash hands, cars, trucks, tractors and flush the toilet.

In many cases there is more than enough ground water to get by with just a sand point 20'ish feet down. If there isn't a lot of water, or you will need lots of water for washing stuff, you can bury a tank (new, unused septic or otherwise) in the yard with a couple of holes in it under the yard and let the water table fill it, that way you always have a good supply ready when you need it. Usually you can also get the local turf company to drop a tanker full of water for a few bucks, it's $50 around here.

My shop doesn't have a septic system either, just a big tank buried in the yard. Once a year I spend about $150 and the guy pumps both the house (for safety) and the shop tanks dry.

Best of luck. ....

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Water to the garage

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-01-21          104654


Av8
What would be the difference between a outside water spicket off your house and a water spicket attached to the garage? You could always have it pointed OUTSIDE on the garage wall for inspection with a shut off inside the heated garage. (Hey if down the road the darn thing turns around and is pointed inside oh well) Just think about how nice it would be to have that water there and ready anytime you need it. (sorry buddy, had to throw that in) LOL. ....

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Water to the garage

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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 542 Quarryville PA
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2005-01-23          104771


I like brokenarrows idea, where there is a will there is a way even if it is a sunday or nighttime assignment. I ran water to my garage but it is not heated. Where I live, many people use frost free hydrants, 36 inch is all we need. I don't know if they have them past 5 feet depth, but then it certainly wouldn't be connected to the garage if that is what you need for code. Then you could plumb the garage and run a garden hose jumper to a faucet on the outside of the garage to fire up the inside. Warm weather only, but it beats waiting for the next house and is cheap. You could use it in winter just not leave it hooked up long. ....

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Water to the garage

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-01-24          104857


Denwood
I am not promoting breaking the law, but Geez, whats the difference if you run a darn hose from the hose to the garage (No drain needed with that?) or if you have a spicket in it (without a drain?)? Is it worry about runoff from toxic materials? If so you would have to ban a hose to the garage too? I must be missing something with the drain rule? ....

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Water to the garage

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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 542 Quarryville PA
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2005-01-24          104867


Well you know 2 of the government's jobs: protecting us from ourselves and lining their own pocket at the same time. In my state, the drain rule was explained to me as once water of any sort enters a drain of any sort, it becomes wastewater and must be treated like it is full of turds. They probably tied that in to having a permenant supply tied in, but I have not heard of that here. I am under the impression you only tie in to septic if there is a drain present. We have a sort of unspoken rule here that if the project is minor(something that may not obviously need a permit), you just do it. Then the codes officer finds you and nicely says,"You need to get a permit for that". You say "ok I'll go get one". Then he says "no problem". We needed a permit to put up new drywall where it was water damaged while rehabbing a house , They caught us, got the $400 for a permit, never inspected afterwards. Another rental had a roof, it wore out, we put new shingles on, they said we need a $200 permit for that "home improvement". I say it was repairing an existing roof that was damaged not an improvement. They want their 2% and no inspection, so it's not like they are looking to make sure it is done right. When we settled on a couple houses last month, they told us there was a sidewalk issue. If there is a crack, you must replace to settle. Well there were several so to get out CFO's, we replaced them. Of course you have to have a permit, but they missed us on that one? It is almost a game sometimes. ....

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Water to the garage

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dieselpusher
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 31 Arizona Pinal Mountains
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2005-09-20          116696


In Arizona you run the water and gas (I think) in the same trench if you dig the trench with a shelf. I think the shelf has to be 1' higher than the bottom of the trench. Our water where I live(4000ft alt.) has to be 1' deep by code. I went just over 2'deep with the water so it would stay cooler in the summer. I know you can run water and elec. in the same trench with a shelf. ....

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funchy
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 128 north eastern corner of Maryland
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2005-09-20          116699


Depth is determined by frost line in your area. When in doubt put it a little deeper.

Be aware the Miss Utility/BUD programs only locate utilities going from the curb! They couldn't tell me where my propane line was from the house to the underground tank, and my gas company doesn't seem to know or care. They also don't know where my septic is; other than the general location of tank and drain field my county health dept has, nobody can tell me where it is but me. Just something to keep in mind.

Definitely bury it FAR from that gas line. Last thing you want is to bump into that line when digging your water line.

If you're not ready to install sewer lines from the garage, why not just install a hydrant right outside your garage for water?
....

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