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Forums > Active Threads > Home and Garden > Barns Pole Barns

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lbrown59
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2004-12-03          101499


Anyone know how to install vinyl siding on a pole building without having the nails protruding through the SOB into he wall cavity?

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grinder
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2004-12-03          101518


Whattype of sheathing is on the building? Thickness? Solid
wall or straping? ....

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lbrown59
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2004-12-03          101522


Whattype of sheathing is on the building? Thickness? Solid
wall or straping?

======================
7/16 OSB
Solid ....

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kubotachick
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-12-03          101523


Just paint it camoflauge, nobody will ever see it anyways, or use glue... ....

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Archdean
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2004-12-03          101526


KC,
The man asked a legitimate question!!

We all like you but you hurt yourself with the cuteness of your replies! Try to address the topic with out so much blondness OK? ....

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kubotachick
Join Date: Mar 2004
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2004-12-03          101527


there is an old saying that goes...people are destined to give advise about things they know absolutely nothing about, and are not qualified to advise on, but the only option you have is to listen... ....

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hardwood
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2004-12-03          101531


We used vinyl siding on a new frame building a few years ago it had 2X6 studs covered with 3/4 OSB. I really don't recall that the nails came thru. I don't need to tell you this, you allready know the 7/16 OSB just isn't thick enough to hold any kind of a nail, but by now somebody surely has came up with another type fastener to do what you need done. Check with where you bought the siding, if they don't have an answer keep checking lumber yards, home centers, etc., I'll bet somebody has a solution for you. Best of luck. Frank. ....

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lbrown59
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2004-12-04          101550


But with a pole building it's different. ....

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hardwood
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2004-12-04          101552


Ibrown; I guess I was too tired to be thinking straight last evening. Yes a pole building is different, the nails must have been lioned up with the studs, I'll take a closer look in the morning. He has an entirely different situation. Frank. ....

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lbrown59
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2004-12-04          101553


Ibrown; I guess I was too tired to be thinking straight last evening.
Yes a pole building is different,
*the nails must have been lioned up with the studs,
============================
*That's the point I was trying to make A pole building don't have any studs so the siding NAILS can't be lined up with the studs so the result is you end up with hundreds of nails sticking out into the wall cavity.

What I'm looking for is ideas on how to put vinyl siding on a pole building without nails sticking through into the open wall cavity.


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grinder
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2004-12-04          101554


You have three option's as I see it. Not sure how the builing is framed, but you must have some framing between posts if you have sheet goods on it? How is it framed?
First thing to remember is the vinyl must be nailed loose.
In a climate of seasonal change the vinyl will buckle if nailed tight. It expands and contracts. You may or may not know this. I don't know your experience, so..
The vinyl must be nailed to a point where you can slide it
left and right when done.
You can buy Galv. roofing nails down to 5/8", but you can't hold on to them to nail. A 3/4 Galv nail would do,
but you would have some protrusion.
You could add another layer of sheathing,either inside or out, expensive.
You could strap what you have,and use a 1 1/4" nail.
What about insulation, are you planning to do that at some point? That would hide it.
IMHO A long nail is not needed, once through the sheathing, it has done it's job. I would use Galv. roofers on OSB
as they grab better than Alum.
Another thought, Not sure how old the sheathing is and what kind of shape it is in but,
If is fairly new and solid I would suggest painting at least the bottom 3-4'
near the ground before siding. OSB is known to act like a sponge over time and
will draw moisture and expand thus causing you nails to fail.
Oil based stain works good,get that bottom edge, and do the inside too.
Merely a suggestion. ....

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Ardician
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2004-12-06          101739


I used to be a professional carpenter so I may could offer some suggestion but it would be helpful to know how you framed your walls. What is the spacing between framing members? You should be able to fasten the siding thru the OSB into the studs (or poles) without worry about protruding nails. If your framing is so spaced out as to not offer enough nailing points for the siding, I can't imagine that the sheathing has enough support. BTW, why does it concern you to have protruding nails in the stud bays? Are you concerned about the nails' lack of purchase in the OSB, or are you planning on leaving the interior of the stud bays unenclosed?

One alternative would be to get a box of galvanized decking scews (1" if you can find them, otherwise 1.25") and screw through the OSB into a 1x2 or 1x3 furring strip held vertically against the interior surface of the OSB. Place these furring strips 16" O.C. If you don't have a helper to hold the strips in place while you fasten from the outside, screw them in place from the inside temporarily with two or three 1 5/8" or 2" screws, removing these fasteners after the shorter screws are in place from the outside. Once the furring is in place, you can use the same type screws to attach the siding, taking care to hit the furring strips. As suggested, take care to leave the screw heads slightly proud of the fastening slot on the siding to allow for movement. This will leave you with no protruding fasteners, but you will have furring strips on the interior surface. ....

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kubotaguy
Join Date: Nov 2003
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2004-12-07          101741


Normally just nailing into 7/16" OSB is not going to be enough to hold vinyl siding on or at least not very long especially if you have strong winds. I would think that you would need a little additional framing on the inside of the pole barn. Technically you are suppose to use aluminum nails for vinyl siding as the galvanized will eventually rust and sometimes leave rust streaks down your siding. Everyone uses galvanized nails because the aluminum bend too easy. Just some extra info. I used to sell vinyl siding and windows a while back for Norandex (now owned by Owenings Corning). ....

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hardwood
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2004-12-07          101782


I guess I'm saying a lot of dumb things lately. I did go look at my building today. Yes the siding nails don't show thru because the siding is nailed in line with the studs on 16 in. centers. Frank. ....

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lbrown59
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2004-12-09          101961


I used to sell vinyl siding a while back for Norandex (now owned by Owenings Corning).
kubotaguy
====================
Vinyl siding sheets are only 10" high so there is no way to line up the top nailing edge with the 24" on center horizontal purloins of a pole barn.
What is needed is 24' high vinyl siding sheets to enable nailing the vinyl siding to the center of the purloins. ....

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vinyl siding

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lbrown59
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2004-12-09          101964


I guess I'm saying a lot of dumb things lately. I did go look at my building today. Yes the siding nails don't show thru because the siding is nailed in line with the studs on 16 in. centers.
Frank.
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[
But you can't do this if you were to run the studs horizontal rather than vertical as in a pole barn. ....

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lbrown59
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2004-12-09          101971


1* What is the spacing between framing members?
2*You should be able to fasten the siding thru the OSB into the studs (or poles) without worry about protruding nails
3*BTW, why does it concern you to have protruding nails in the stud bays?
4*Are you planning on leaving the interior of the stud bays unenclosed?
Ardician
.===============.
1*Instead of having vertical studs spaced 24 inches on center I have horizontal purloins spaced 24 inches on center.
2*There aren't any studs in a pole barn because horizontal purloins replace studs.
Even if you were to nail the siding only in line with the poles you would still have the nail protruding problem because the osb is one and one half inches out from the poles due to the 2x4 purloins attached to the post.
3*Makes it difficult to run wiring inside the wall cavity - doin.t like the idea of mixing electrical wires with sharp pointed objects.
Makes it hard to finish the inside because the nails are in the way of installing paneling OSB or other covering such as wall board, etc.
Just seems to me the protuding nails are a sloppy obbed up way to do a job.
4*You can't leave the inside of the stud bays unenclosed with hundreds of sharp pointed nails sticking out.

....

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grinder
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2004-12-09          101974


Sounds like vertical strapping on the outside, 16" OC. ....

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lbrown59
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2004-12-10          102057



Sounds like vertical strapping on the outside, 16" OC.
Grinder
===============
I think I figured out a way to nail the vinyl siding to a pole building without any nails sticking out.
1*Run the osb horizontally and nail it to the Purloins using nails that aren't long enough go clear thought the OSB and the purloins
2*From the inside place either a 2x2 or a 2x4 vertically between each of the purloins from the top to the bottom of the wall. Do this every 24' on center from one end of the wall to the other.
3**Next mark the 24'' centers on the outside of the OSB.
4*Now nail the siding on at the marked 24 inch centers again bring sure the nails are shorter than the combined thickness of the osb and the 2 bys.
The nails used to attach the osb to the purloins should work for this as well.

Some side notes
You could go 16 inch centers rather than 24' centers.

The vertical 2 bys don't have to be permanently attached to the purloins as the siding nails will permanently attach them to the OSB.
Just toe nail them into the purloins on each end leaving the nail heads out far enough so that you can easily pull them after the siding is installed.
Another take on this would be to use a 2x4 notched out from top to bottom for the purloins then nail it through the notches into the purloins.
Again place these 24 or 16 inches on center your option.

The purpose of the 2 bys is to serve as covers or caps over the nail points not as part of the structural framing of the building. That has been taken care of by the post and the purloins.

Wish I would have done something like this on my building.
It's already built with all those hundreds of nails sticking out. Now I have to deal with the problem of how to fix the mess.

I can see it's a lot easier and better to prevent the problem that it is to fix it.

....

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grinder
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2004-12-10          102063


press a piece of styrofoam over the nails. ....

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taheide
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2004-12-10          102065


Use short stainless steel screws and when done, go inside and snap the ends off with a hammer. No extra work needed. No sharp points sticking out. With 7/16" OSB, that is about the strongest hold you will ever get without framing the interior with strapping every 16 OC as others suggested.

A pole barn made of OSB? hmm I thought they all had steel panels. ....

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grinder
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2004-12-11          102082


If you screw it, I would suggest you use a siding with the
nailing strip attached by mesh, so you can tighten your fasteners. Wolverine is one that I know of. Nailing strip
is atached to the panels with about an inch wide mesh(nylon)? This allows you to nail/screw it tight and the panels can still slide in the groves.
I believe that a screws diameter would be to big for the nail slots to allow movement. The last thing you want is buckeled siding. ....

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taheide
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2004-12-12          102130


#6 screws are about the same diameter as roofing nails, so they should not be a problem. ....

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Ardician
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2004-12-13          102156


Oh. I think I understand now. Ibrown, I didn't know you already had the problem of the protruding nails, but thought you were trying to avoid it. If it were my pole barn, I would just slap OSB on the interior of the purlins, which would cover the nails in the spaces and give you an interior wall covering. Then I would pull non-sheathed wire through conduit mounted on the interior surface of your interior OSB. This seems to me the easiest, cheapest way to go. Of course, the downside is that you will have visible conduit and surface mounted outlet boxes, etc., but that may be okay for a pole barn. I, for one, would like to hear what you decide to do. Good luck. ....

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lbrown59
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2004-12-17          102430


1* I didn't know you already had the problem of the protruding nails, but thought you were trying to avoid it
2* If it were my pole barn, I would just slap OSB on the interior of the purloins, which would cover the nails in the spaces and give you an interior wall covering.
3* I, for one, would like to hear what you decide to do. Good luck.
Ardician
===============
1*Actually I was trying to do both.
Prevent others from making the same mistake that was maid on mine and also was looking for ideas on how to correct the problem of the protruding nails in mine.
I think I came up with a way to avoid the problem of the protruding nails when building the building; see my post number 102057 in this thread.
However I haven't totally resolved the problem of the already protruding nails in my building.
2*That is what I planed to do on the left half of the building but I would prefer
eliminating the nails so I can run the wiring in the cavity behind the OSB rather than on the interior surface of the OSB.I also was thinking of insulating the cavity with a spray foam type insulation.
3* I think I will use some sort of a cut off tool to cut off the nails that are sticking through the 2x4 purloins.
As for the siding nails protruding through the OSB I could cut them off also, but I'm not sure that would be a wise thing to do on them as I'm concerned that the cut off nails might work back out of the OSB and loosen the vinyl siding.
Anybody have any ideas on that-Will the siding still stay on tight or not if I cut off those nails.






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grinder
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2004-12-17          102445


What type of nail? ring? length?
If you are thinking of foaming it why bother?
I would put my wiring in first on the inside and then foam it. If you are not putting more than 1 1/2 in. to cover the purlins, I would perfer to bend them over ,with the grain.
You can always cover it in the future.
....

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lbrown59
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2004-12-17          102449


If you are thinking of foaming it why bother?
I would put my wiring in first on the inside and then foam it.
********
Because there are so many nails it makes it hard to keep the wires out of them and if you try to use conduit you can't get it around the nails. ....

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grinder
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2004-12-18          102468


It hard to give any advice not seeing your project.
Could you run your wires along the purlins and just
break or gring off the nails that are in the way?
I quess I would be reluctant to break off all the nails.
If you leave them you can be almost certain they won't loosen. And if they ever did youhave something to reset.
If you cut them and they pull back for some reason, you
risk the problem of not having anything to reset as they
may come right out at 7/16 length?
Perhaps if you had a picture or two I could help more.
How much insulation do you need? Could you run conduit on
you 2x4's? ....

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lbrown59
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2004-12-18          102474


1*Could you run your wires along the purlins and just
break or grind off the nails that are in the way?
2How much insulation do you need?
Grinder
======
1*No because the inside OSB goes flat against the purlins.
2*1.5 inches from the inside of the interior OSB to the inside of the purlins.
This is also the space I need to run the wiring in, but it's full of protruding nails from the vinyl siding nails.
I can cut off the nails penetrating through the purlins.
I guess I could cut off any siding nails in the way of running the wiring along the top or bottom of the purlins and leave the others. But if I foam the walls and ever have to get into the cavity there is still all those hidden protruding nails to deal with. At least before you foam the walls. you can see where they are but once you spray the foam you've lost that advantage.
....

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grinder
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2004-12-18          102484


What about using 1 1/2 " foam sheets pressed on over the nails with some foam board adhesive. The wiring could be put on the 2x4's in conduit, or just staple them.
As far as burying them in the wall, just make sure you run plenty of supply. You can always junction box off an outlet. I would bet you never would have to. They are
foaming new and old home here in Maine,covering plumbing and wiring. Have not heard of any problems. How many times have you had to open up a wall to add a pipe or wire ? not very often I bet. ....

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funchy
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2004-12-19          102547


I had the exact same problem with a pole horse run-in I just built. To make it blend in with the neighborhood I covered it with vinyl.

There is no way the purlins on a pole structure will line up with vinyl. What I did was just nail it with the normal kind of nails. On the inside I knocked all the nails down flat against the plywood.

Best of luck to you! ....

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lbrown59
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2004-12-22          102701




On the inside I knocked all the nails down flat against the plywood.
funchy
====================
Did you have to do that on the purloins too or did you use nails to attach the plywood to the purloins that were short enough that they did not penetrate through the purloins ?
Bending or clinching the nails through plywood may be OK but I don't have plywood I used OSB instead.
Since OSB is much softer than plywood I'm afraid if I clinch the nails it will pull the siding out of line and cause it to buckle or become wavy.




















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