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BigRing
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4 WI
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2004-12-01          101375


I wouldn't rush out to buy a new Case or New Holland in the near future. The union employees have been locked out in a labor dispute and CNH is using replacement workers to build the tractors. I'd be very weary of the quality they are producing.

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sprobst
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 17 Indiana
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2004-12-01          101377


When did this begin? ....

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bobkro32
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 38 Mill Spring, North Carolina
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2004-12-01          101378


Sprobst--

I saw a posting about three weeks ago from a NH plant worker about impending layoffs. The posting brought about a very lengthy series of discussions about the value of unions, the role of management, supply and demand, trashing of Wal-Mart, etc. etc. The discussions got a little pointed on some occaisions.

I lookd for the string, but could not locate it. Perhaps the site administrator deleted it, or maybe I didn't look in the right place.

Hope this helps.

b ....

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bobkro32
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 38 Mill Spring, North Carolina
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2004-12-01          101379


Sprobst--

Look under the "hot subjects" message board on the lower right hand section of the Tractorpoint home page. The message string is titled "possible strike" by Brokenarrow, and was originally posted sometime ago, with follow ups as late as last month.

b ....

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BigRing
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4 WI
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2004-12-01          101380


My post wasn't about whether the company's position is right or the union's position is right. But CNH currently has several hundred new and inexperienced workers building machines that cost 10s of thousands of dollars. Strike began Nov. 3, strike ended Nov. 23 but then CNH locked out the union, opting to build tractors with replacement workers. They stated something about that being in the customers best interest. Yah right. ....

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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 542 Quarryville PA
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2004-12-01          101381


If you can trust what the dealers say, you should not worry about CUT's, they aren't built in either case or NH factories. Probably if there is a strike in Japan or wherever they are built, I would worry. as far as other equipment, maybe worry ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-12-01          101397


The strike was for large 120+ hp tractors. Every thing else is built over seas. Don't try to get people ralled up about some thing that you know nothing about.

Also as far as the larger tractors go. Even if a defective one would happen to get out of the plant, after they test every component as it is installed. We at the dealership also go over every tractor with a fine tooth comb.

In short save your accusations for something else. ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-12-02          101453


The cuts come from dublin Ga. USA Assem.
Oneace there have been a grand totall of 2 tractors come off the line (which was full when we walked out so those 2 tractors were already built) These guys are right, you dont want to buy one of the tracors built after Nov. 3. They are wrong though they are not tens of thousands try a hundred + thousand each for the one we produce. LOL
(WE)
Anyway oneace, your right about the tractors being tested before they come off the line, the problem comes in when you know the reat of the story. NO MANAGEMENT personel knows most of the ins and outs of what we do. There are a few manegement guys (mostly retired ones) that are pretty good but for the most part they could not find their ass with both hands. This is not B.S. Our middle management(IE supervisors/engineers/"purchasing for parts" and so on) does such a fine job of hideing and covering up their lack of knowlege from the UPPER management that the company's upper upper's had a reality check about 2 weeks into the strike. You see the 100 scabs that were shipped in from a staffing agency were on the job and NO tractors were coming off the line? WHY??? Because the line was not able to move without anyone there that knows what is going on. You see assembling a tractor cant be done from reading a routing or directions! You really need to know wht the hell your doing and that is not learned in a few weeks (even from guys that know what they are doing that train others) My management "snitch" told me that they were told, "you better have tractors rolling by the Thangksgiving weekend" And work all weekend if need be!" Guess what? They did not even work Sat. WHY? They (management) had to fess up and tell them they CANT run the line! LOL ROTFLMAO! You think management will have a few heads roll when this is done? ANyway they are now just trying to supply the other CNH plant (like Fargo) with the parts that we make for them. They are more than likely doing that ok because it is just running machines and using the gauges that I made to check parts.
Today I saw ONE tractor come out the door, they were test driving it around the plant. Pretty good eh? Guess what? That was a tractor that was about 85% built already yep the 5 one from the end! (My faithful snitch gave me this info) The other 2 are in the repaire bay. The first day they tried to move the line one of the hot shot scabs and a management guy dropped a fully loaded cab! Rolled the sucker!
I could go on and on. LOL The long and short of this is that you better not believe what you read on the NYSE sights and news clippings put out by the company. My dealer told me they were told that everything was hunky dory and they resumed tractor operations the next week? NOT!!!! I am on that truck entrance EVERYDAY and have watch 2 tractor come out the door. One more today for a grand total of 3 in a month. This is just what Deere needs to totally collapse cnh's 120hp + market share.
Sorry Oneace but as far as I am concerned I hope JD slams CNH like the slugs those FIAT (forign assholes)tirants are. They dont give a rats ass about American workers they just want to produce a cheap tractor. Just like their loser car company (which we have been bailing out for the past 1 1/2 years) If JD can make a profit and have their employees make a decent wage with decent benifits why cant CNH? I will tell you why, our management needs a totall overhaul, Deere has better management and better direction.
I will leave you with this, dont believe anything you read about what was offered and what was not. This work agreement that they want to force on us is totally substandard and frankly is a joke from a company like Case/Newholland. Anyone wants any info ask me and I will e-mail you anything you have questions about. For starters if I go back to work I will imediatley lose 14K in wage and benifits and that only goes up from there as the year goes on. Buisness is not that bad! JD is making money hand over fist paying their workers a good wage the problem is with fiat, is that they want to make more than their fair share and if they can screw evey american worker they can that gets in their way!
Screw Newholland,. I get sick everytime I look at that butt ugly front end on my tractor (LOL HEE HEE)
Brokenarrow:: future kubota owner!! ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2004-12-02          101460


I didn't think the quality of my 2002 TC33D with 250 hrs on it could get any worse! Fuse door won't stay shut, starter siezed up, battery is still over-charging, the 3-pt lever broke at the pivot, ignition switch replaced, hood's plastic parts and shrouds don't align and rub on each other, rubber elbows at hyd. cooler split open, the lower 3-pt arms with extending pivots are shot ($235 each!) ---and it will be worse than that? ....

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AV8R
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882 North Central Wisconsin
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2004-12-02          101463


Where are the smaller tractors assembled (super-steers and the like)? Just wondering how my former employer is going to fare.

Best of luck to you guys.

BTW the old Case plant in Milwaukee burned down recently, so there's no going back to that one either. ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2004-12-03          101524


60 to 120 hp tractors are made in italy, belguim, and france. < 50 hp tractors are made in japan. They are assy. here meaning all they do is put the wheels and tires on. ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-12-04          101549


Oneace
I dont know for sure but I think its alot more than that. I heard of guys going down to the dublin plant to watch their tractor being ass. Also some perks were gave to guys I work with who did go down there. Since I dont really know though for sure I could be wrong. Unless you are 100% sure why dont you check on that for me since I have no connections anymore! LOL
Av8r
That plant was in Racine (just south of Milw.) As late as 2 years ago we had 3 plants in Racine, 1. the transmision plant where I work, we also made valves and axles and many other parts for other places.
2. the foundry: we used to make our own castings till last year. The Fiat guys said'" its not in our core buisness plans anymore to do that" So now we ship em from around the country and from china!!!!!
3. The plant that burned was actually the old TRACTOR plant where the tractors would used to be assembled. We would ship our transmitions down the road to them and the foundry would get us the castings for machining. It was a great set up just a little screwed up. Most of that plant that burned was already demolished. The fire really did not doo too much damage since it was schedualed to come down soon. Now In Racine we only have the corp. headquarters and the NEW TRACTOR/TRANSMITION plant. we expanded our operations at the old transmition plant to be able to run blue and red on a new assembly line. Its pretty efficient now except that they have no one there that knows what to do anymore! LOL
I checked this morning, they have 23 tractors out the door (in 5 weeks not bad huh?) Oh all of those were already on the line when we walked!
AV8 thanks for those kind words. I just read your post on the one year bs. and asap I will pm you to find out what its about thank you very much for that offer!
Man I am tired, I been outside most of the day walking with friends on the line. That clod air wipes ya out. Good night alll ....

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BigRing
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4 WI
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2004-12-04          101567


Actually, it was the old tractor assembly plant and foundry in Racine, which is in the process of being scrapped already. ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2004-12-04          101577


BigRing
You are correct! Like I said in my post (dont know if you saw this or not)
Quote "Most of that plant that burned was already demolished. The fire really did not doo too much damage since it was schedualed to come down soon."
Wonder how much it was insured for? LOL Maybe enough to finish the demolision free of charge? My ancestors may of called that a little "Italian lighting"
LOL
Before amyone jumps on that I am (1/2) Italian and have heard that term often at old social gatherings! LOL
The other half is Polish so I guess I am too stupid to know when to shut up EH? ....

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13n0brndngIrn
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7
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2005-02-11          105938


Compacts are built in Japan and assembled (some bells and whistles) in Georgia.

The plant in question does not make all 120+ HP NH tractors. In fact, most of NH's 120+ HP tractors are made in Basildon, England. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2005-02-11          105943


AV8R: Nice work on the spell-checker! LOL

To answer your question about where are the smaller ones "assembled" (parts are "made" in Japan) I believe it is Georgia. ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-02-11          105944


The TG series ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-02-18          106404


TG210 to the TG285 and its CASE equivalent. We run red and blue down the same lines. Are able to make 48-52 a day and more if a second shift is put on (wont ever happen though). Thing many forget about our plant is that we not only do tractors but we have a very lucrative valve buisness. We sell out our valves also. Not to mention we supply FARGO with large assemblies for their rear ends, axels. Also the CE valves and combine parts. They shut down our casting operation (Ship em in from china now in some cases) Fiat said it was not in our core buisness to run a foundry. Little by little Fiat is running an american company into the ground (right next to their winner of a car buisness). John deer has to be lovin every minuit of it! I would be! I am 1/2 Italian but lately have not has a taste for Spaghetti ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-02-18          106405


GM is buying NH with in 3 years. ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-02-18          106406


Dont get our hopes up, its April first. ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-02-18          106407


I thought I heard GM has told fiat they want out and will pay them billions to get what they want, (Which is out) I jighly dought fiat will sell their only company that is making any real money for them. Not only did we make a bunch of money last year for that forign owned company but for the last 3 years we paid for all their restructuring which the bill fell soley on cnh. I wonder if the banks would let fiate get rid of the only thing they own thats worth/carrying its own weight. ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-02-18          106408


CNH only made $200 million world wide. What did Deere make? about 5 Billion. GM Buying cnh would be the best thing that ever happened to the tractor industry. ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-02-18          106409


Oneace
Last thing, something is going to have to give with our situation soon. We both know what happens in Feb. and march and that steady climb continues thru may to a peak of sales. With what is going in the doors as of today for workers, either cnh will have to outsource most of the product we manufacture real fast (Including the GEARS! the ones that England is haveing a hard time competeing with us on not to mention they can't get repitition correct yet over there). The talks broke down for the second time in 3 weeks putting them off till the end of next week again. I think if they fall thru again next week the company will declaire we are at impass and will make a major move after that imediately. Me thinks by the end of this month will tell the tale if I get to move and build anouther house or if I will be back on the job. Of course this is just my guess and am wrong more than right especially since I have a bias to moving.
Oneace
you may get a kick out of this. Yesterday at about 4:55am a new group of new hires were coming in to cross the lock out lines (after awhile you get to know every car since I am out there almost every morning between that time and 6:30am) This car was stopped 2 cars back waiting to get thru us and there were 4 gentle men in the car. One apparently did not like what he was hearing and flashes a few gang signs (LOL PUNK!) then he pulls out a camera phone and starts taking pictures of the guys outside the car! Can you imagine this! 30 men outside your car taht are locked out and this PUNK flahes signs at us and thinks he is going to intimidate us with a picture phone! The next thing you know there are 25 guys about to pull this punk and his buddies thru the window. The gaurds come running out and the police were on the other side of the street. Imediately they get his car onto company property and have a 10 minuit chat, with the punk. See, we were told by the police we can't have any cameras taking pictures of the scabs for fear of us intimidating. What do you think and where do you think this drug addict gang banger/NewHolland production worker on jail release was doing with those pics? One more thing, the FBI was in the plant last week Thur. I did not see them come out but inside sources says they hauled 2 workers from out of state out in cuffs. Great work force huh?
AHHH Thats enough work talk its the weekend, have a good weekend! ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-02-21          106562


Your correct Oneace but you need to compare apple to apples. Deere Ag tractors to CNH ag tractors. You cant throw in all products sold by the companys and call it a comparison. Remember deer sells tractors, lawn mowers, push lawn mowers, weed whackers, gas powered nose clippers and a two stage ear wax removal tool. I think Deer makes more money profit on their hats that cnh makes in tractors.
(They should for the price they soak their clients for the hats that cost them 2 bucks to make).
....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-02-22          106621


I am talking about ALL of CNH from the little riding mowers the whole way up Ag and construction. ....

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brokenarrow
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Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-02-23          106677


I figured that because from the numbers I just looked up, if you compare the same lines of equipment the numbers are similar not billions off. When new holland and Case merged they became a world wide presence in Agriculture.
....

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