Go Bottombackhoe for B7500
 | Dick Went
Join Date: Posts: 1 
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2003-05-23 55413
Hi, thinking about buying a Kubota backhoe for my B7500.I was wondering if it's tough enough to pull out some good sized rocks and stumps.
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada 
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2003-05-24 55467
If it is anything like the hoe on the BX, and I think it is, it will do pretty well.
I just got done digging a series of holes with my BX in soil so hard that the bottom of the holes were grooved by the bucket teeth when I got done. It was slow going sometimes but it worked.
There is absolutely no way I could have done the same work with manual tools or a post hole digger. No way. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-05-25 55508
Backhoes are pretty useful things to have and there's likely a hoe that is appropriate for 7500's. If you really mean pulling stumps, you'll probably be disappointed, and that would be true for most any hoe on any compact. Most people use them for digging around stumps to expose major roots that are then cut. Eventually a stump can be pulled but usually there has to be some digging first.
Hoes are good at digging rather than pulling. They also are a bit limited at lifting big rocks out of holes, especially when the bucket is away from the tractor. The long arms multiply load on the boom cylinders and the hydraulics stall. However, most hoes can lift rocks that are a bit too big to fit in the bucket. It takes a little technique but a big rock can be locked between the bucket and most sticks by using the bucket curl.
For actual pulling, the tractor drawbar is the best and safest point. I took the top-plate off my drawbar since I don't have a tow implement. That gives me a 1" hole in the bar. I often keep a 1" clevis loop on the drawbar just so it's there if I need to pull something. The loop is large enough for 3/8th chain grab hooks to pass through, which makes a good attachment point.
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| stevenc
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 190 North Carolina
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2003-05-30 56042
If you buy a after market Back Hoe,,BE SURE to get a sub-frame or you will end up with 2 1/2s of one tractor!!!!! They will break in 1/2 ....
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 | WillieH
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 543 New England 
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2003-06-01 56223
Dick Went -
As I recently found out, mother orange has modified her design and ultimately her thoughts regarding the sub-frame controversy with backhoes.
If one was to purchase a ...B7500 for example with FEL,MMM, and backhoe...the backhoe will not be fitted with a sub-frame rather a cross locking bar that locks the lower 3pt arms to the frame of the hoe so as to keep a rigid assembly and not allow a twist of the hoe against the top link mount.
The big problem came in when people were loading the FEL with weight and then digging "animalistic" with the hoe. This action of the hoe would demand that the nose of the tractor to lift. Under "normal" circumstances, the unit would not break in two, however, with the FEL loaded as well, SNAP-OLA! Since the redesign, all the orange dealers that I have spoke to claim that with this new design, the subframe is no longer required. Time will tell.
I personally have a Woods 650 on an orange since 1987, as a 3pt mounted unit, without subframe. It all comes down to how you handle your equipment...and I have taken out some monster boulders in VT with it, with out reason to question having a subframe.
Every yard is different; every persons operating habits are different...my two cents.
Willie H. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-06-02 56242
Well now that is an interesting thing. I too have stuck with my 3ph hoe without worrying too much about it but not for quite as long. My Kelley mount sort of locks the lower links to the drawbar and I always thought that would do a fair job of distributing the load. I do have to check adjustment of the stabilizers frequently though.
What is interesting is that I always thought the problem was top link compression from digging. Now that Willie mentions it, there is a lot of leverage on the tractor when the bucket is full and the arms are stretched out. I can see that a bit of jerking from not very well controlled operations can put huge shock loads on the tractor. Weight in the bucket would make it much worse. Mostly what I did is keep the engine rpm down until I got the hang of feathering the controls reliably.
I'm not sure if twisting on the top-link bracket is different from ordinary compression that occurs when digging with a conventional 3ph hoe. I also can see that jerking when the bucket is swung to the side may produce twisting rather than compression. It'll be interesting to see how the new design work out.
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-06-02 56257
Willie, please expound a bit more on which digging techniques are harder on the tractor and what exactly is animalistic?
Also it is hard to understand why people would load the FEL bucket instead of flipping it over and digging it in. What does that accomplish? ....
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| WillieH
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 543 New England
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2003-06-02 56268
Mark -
Why? That is a great question to ask. I'm sure that you could ask fifty different people that same question and get fifty different answers.
I believe that there is an understanding out there, however true or false is anyones guess, that if your going to be digging with the hoe, to keep the tractor "planted" beyond the capabilities of the stabilizers, one should load the bucket for added front weight.
Keeping this in mind, these same individuals will then crank the revs up so high that the TLB is then operating in such a "jerky" fashion, that it then will have a tendency to strain the assembly points of the unit. Rather than operating at a "comfortable" rev level, still achieving sufficient hydraulic operating pressure for the hoe, they will then start to rip and tear at a stump or heavy root or some such beast. Once caught with the little unit, the tractor will develop sufficient power thru the hoe to flip over and/or crush the operator. When the FEL is loaded, along with the strain on the framing from the "caught" hoe bucket, the tendency was there in the past to split the tractor in half. Hence the advisement for a subframe when ever using a backhoe on a compact.
The same difficulties run true, as a full or loaded FEL is obtained, and some brainchild decides to dig out a tree for transplant, and carries it in the hoe scoop along with the weight of the soil. Then in travel, from one spot to the next, they start bouncing abit, as most will. The bouncing gets out of control, as the weight from the loaded FEL is offsetting the weight from the loaded hoe , then reverses the weight displacement thru the bounce, and the next thing, the tractor splits in two, again. Hence the advisement of a subframe when ever using a backhoe attachment on a compact.
This same action of operation, as I described above with the extremely / too high of engine revs causing a jerky action, the loading of the FEL for counter weighting the hoe while ripping or tearing at a stump or such, then the loaded FEL with loaded hoe in transit, are all examples of animalistic operation of the TLB that will potentially cause either damage or injury or both. Remember the hoe is intended for digging, not ripping or tearing beyond its abilities.
I think that we are ALL guilty of taxing our equipment from time to time, however done repeatedly is ultimately going to show up with some sort of catastrophy.
Willie H.
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-06-03 56424
I never thought of putting weight in the loader. I guess I figured that most digging tends to raise the rear and would increase pressure of the front. The purpose of the loader would be to stop the tractor from pivoting on its front wheels and the purpose of digging in the blade would be to keep the hoe from dragging the tractor towards the hole. I never thought about it too much since my hoe doesn't have the power to muscle the tractor around too much. I do get shocks that tend to lift the front from jerky operation and mutter at myself the few times I still do it.
Now that I think about it, if I had a bigger bucket than I do and a lighter tractor, swinging full buckets could put a lot of twist on the tractor and make it tippy. A standard hoe safety rule is never dump to the downhill side. Jerks during swings would make it much worse. Weight in the bucket could be a definite advantage although it sure would increase stress on the tractor.
Willie's comment about breaking tractors when driving full buckets and loaders made me recall a story. I've heard of tractors breaking during highway transport on trailers when buckets weren't sat down on the trailer deck. I can't remember if the story was about a hoe or a loader, but you can get some huge shocks to tractors on trailers at highway speeds. People who buy short trailers put themselves at risk.
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