Go BottomKubota loader controls freezing up
 | Andy
Join Date: Posts: 1 
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2000-03-16 13791
I was reading thru some older posts and noticed a comment about the front end loader controls freezing up on Kubota tractors. No specific data was given, but a reference was made to previous threads. I can't seem to find anything in previous threads. Maybe my search methods are remiss.....Does anyone have any info on this front end loader control freezing up problem??Is it live or Memorex??
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962 
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2000-03-16 13792
Andy, I THINK most of that discussion was on the other board. Some folks in the northeast had a problem with water getting into the caps on the front of the spools and freezing. They just had to take the caps off, let the ice fall out, and put the caps back, without loosing a little spring and ball that'll fall out at the same time. I've never looked into mine since it's stored inside and can't get rain water in it, and I've never used it in subfreezing weather (and hope I never do). ....
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| Andrew Budz
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2000-03-16 13802
Bird, you mean folks take their tractors out in bad weather??....MAN!!!...some people have no respect for their tools!*laughing*...I was figuring on getting one of them plastic slip covers for mine. You know like the ones our mother's used to put on the livingroom furniture...I think they were made by Fingerhaut Co....or something like that....
Glad to hear I won't have that freezing problem down here in God's country...TEXAS!!
....
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| gerard
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 36 kentucky
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2000-03-16 13818
Coming from Syracuse, NY and LOTS of snow I don't have the luxury of not using my tractor in sub zero temps! (Although it's definitely a luxury i wouldn't mind! However when you have to use your loader just to push back than banks enough to make room for your plow man so he has somewhere to put the next back of frozen white stuff you gotta get out in the cold! Anyway I haven't had any freezing problems yet with an LB400 loader. ....
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| Bruce Lahmayer
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2000-03-16 13830
I bought a new L4310 with the factory cab last year. It has the joystick type control for the loader. From the beginning that controler was just awful. I could only move it sideways to roll the bucket when it was centered and the force required even then was very high. I had the Kubota dealerships mechanic look at it when he was finishing some other dealer installed options. He seemed to think that he just needed to get some lubricant into the cables and said he would do so when I brought it back for the 50 hour service. So I struggled with it until just recently. I had noticed some oil leaking from the loader valve and when I was looking for the leak I noticed that the way the cables were attached to the valve was incorrect. There is a sleeve on the end of the cables. There is a small metal ring the goes around the sleeve and bolts to the loader valve. I found that the sleeve and the small ring that holds it in place had their relative positions reversed from what they should be. That allowed the cables to bind. I reassembled the parts in the correct manner and now the joystick works the way it should. The loader was put on at the dealer so I don't think Kubota is to blame. ....
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| Andy
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-03-17 13835
Bruce, glad to hear your problem was minor. I don't know where some of these dealers find their mechanics! I guess there is not enough repeat business in sales to warrant hiring a competent mechanic. Other than the joystick/hydraulics foul up...have you had any other issues with the 3010?? ....
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| Bruce Lahmayer
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2000-03-17 13863
Andy, to answer your question about whether I have had any other issues with the 4310: Well one complaint I have is that this tractor really needs telescoping links on the three point arms. The lower arms attach at somewhat of an angle to the tractor. When you move the arms sideways such as to hook up to an implement, you have to also move the tractor or the implement forward or backword. Otherwise the three point arm will not slide onto the implement. It gets to be a real restling match. It could easily be solved with a few inches of telescoping ends on those three point arms. As far as I know Kubota does not make telescoping arms for this tractor. New Holland has them for their tractors as an option. I intend to copy the New Holland design and make my own.
I have one other complaint about the loader on this tractor. This only happens when the bucket is full: It wants to roll down on it's own and the cylinders are holding it back. When you empty the bucket, it rolls forward too fast for the hydraulics on the non-weight bearing side in the cylinders to keep up. This causes a gas bubbles in the hydraulic circuit on that side. So when you dump your load, if you what to drop the bucket down and spread out what you just dumped, the bucket won't hold it's position. It wants to flop back up as you back it through what you just dumped. Then you have to fiddle with the joystick and pump some fluid into the bucket cylinders to get the bucket to hold it's position. I'm wondering if there is some kind of one-way restrictor that would solve this problem?
One more thing about the three point. It actually raises too fast unless you inch the control back gradually. But that doesn't let you have a nice smooth lift either. You can control the rate of drop but not the lift as far as I know.
Bruce Lahmayer ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada 
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2000-03-18 13892
Bruce, the condition you are describing is called "cavitation", and it is not 'gas' bubbles but actually air from the reservoir. It is caused by the load in the bucket (as you stated) dumping the bucket faster than the hydraulic fluid can be 'sucked back up' the return line from the reservoir to fill the other side of the cylinder. The result is that it is easier for air to bubble through the fluid, than for the fluid itself to go up the line. The solution is very simple, you need to install a "line throttle valve" (a fancy name for a fitting with a restriction in it) in the line between the 'bucket cylinder' and the control valve (install it on the side that is under pressure when dumping the bucket). All this does is slow down the fluid leaving the cylinder so that the fluid filling the other side can keep up with it. These valves are available from any hydraulic supply shop and are not expensive, probably about $10-15, in fact you will probably find one useful on the cylinder on the boom also (again, on the side that is under pressure when the boom is lowered). Best of luck. ....
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| Bruce Lahmayer
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-03-21 14037
Murf, I have thought about your explanation and your suggestion for a solution with a "line throttle valve". Thanks for your answer. But let me ask you a couple things. Is that a one way device? My own thought was some type of one way restricter valve. I looked at my Surplus Center catalog and found an item called a "flow regulator" for $16.95. The description for this item: "For regulating flow to cylincers or motors to control speed. Pressure compensated so flow stays the same regardless of the load. Free flow reverse direction." I think this would work except this partcular one is too big. It is rated for 12gpm in the restricted direction and 30 gpm in the reverse direction. My tractors pump is 7.8 gpm at some unspecified rpm. So I will have to search some more I guess. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to ask Kubota. But I wanted to ask you more about cavitation. I agree that cavitation is probably a good term to describe how this problem starts. To quote Webster: "Cavitation is the formation of partial vacuums in a flowing liquid as a result of the separation of its parts." The part of your explanation that I am having a problem with is imagining a streem of air bubbles suddenly making their way from the reservoir to the cylinders. I think the gas that is generated comes directly from air that is entrained into the hydraulic fluid itself. Or perhaps it is generated in a fashion similar to what happens when other fluids are placed into a vacuum. They boil off gas. But I am open to being convinced otherwise. And I would appreciate a source for the type of part that I need. BL
....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2000-03-22 14045
Bruce, the part I will have to research a little for you, I just go to my local Hydraulic supply shop, I'm sure if you do the same with the info. you have they will get you set up, but I will look it up for you. The fitting is basically a coupling with a smaller opening than your lines (about 1/4") which restricts the flow rate, to a level below the cavitation point. The pump will never supply fluid faster than the loader will in 'dump' position. As for the bubbles, they are are NOT 'formed' at all, it is air being drawn down through the fluid in the reservoir and into the lines. The visualization is difficult, but it is the exact opposite of what happens if you go the bottom of a pool and blow out. It is easier for the hyd. fluid to part and allow an air bubble through, than to flow quickly (because of the viscosity). ....
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| Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2000-03-22 14055
I am finding that very hard to visualize, Murph. I wonder if we could set up some sort of experiment with glass beakers or something so that we could watch this happening. Or maybe some hydraulics shop has a demonstration rig. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2000-03-22 14070
Is that thin 'Mountain Air' up there getting to you Roger? LOL ....
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