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 | Paula Freyer
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2000-02-22 13061
Hey everyone. I need help. I own a small horse farm - about 20 acres and am destroying my little JD 445 - I definetly need something bigger. Want to mow a lot, drag my riding ring, plow snow, run a little manure spreader, etc. and don't know if the 4100 is sufficient. Not even sure if I should buy a JD or if a NH or Kubota would work just as well. You know there are tons of web sites that list invoice prices for every car/truck and every conceivable option, why can't I find similar sites with invoice prices on new compact tractors? Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated because whatever tractor I buy next, I plan on keeping for a LONG time. Thanks!!
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| Harry Webster
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2000-02-22 13064
Paula, I just went through exactly what you are describing. We have a 10 acre horse farm and was sold a 445/40 loader last year as being the answer to our needs. The 445 was a nice little tractor, but I was beating it up trying to keep up with all the barn chores, plus the cat 0 three point hitch was too little to put a post hole digger on or pull much of a brush hog. To make a long story short, we upgraded to a 4100/410 loader and 413 rotary cutter this past Saturday. It handles my flexible tine harrow that I use to drag the arena with ease, I opted for the 61" bucket to speed up the manure chores, and pulls my Mill Creek spreader like it isn't there. The only limitation to the 4100 that I can see is that it will only handle a 48" brush hog, though it can handle a 60" finish mower. The step up from 445 to 4100 is considerable, both in performance and price. I got a fairly decent trade in for the 445, but I had to go to three different dealers to get it.
HarryW ....
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| gerard
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 36 kentucky
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2000-02-22 13069
I was in the same boat as you. We have an 11 acre small horse farm and settled on a 27hp Kubota w/ 60" loader. Seems to be a good size and in general can handle 5ft implements. Also something to consider is going larger you pay considerably more for implements. ie a light duty 5ft bushog is $500 but to go to a 6ft you're looking at $1000. I drag the arena with a 6ft rake with no problem and have a 5ft box blade which it handles with no problem. I definitely wouldn't go with a smaller loader. You should be able to get something new in the $15000-17000 range depending on who you go with. I'd be comfortable with either orange,blue or green. Depends on who's closer and is willing to deal the most. One thing I did find is that if you're going to keep it awhile buying used doesn't save much $. Good luck
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| PaulB
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2000-02-22 13085
Paula - I have 10 acres, 7 horses, indoor riding arena, lots of manure to move, old fence posts to pull out, snow to plow, etc, etc. I have a 17 horsepower Kubota, and it does it all easily. Your 4100 should be more than enough tractor, but by all means MAKE SURE you get the hydrostatic transmission - it is infinately superior to a gear transmission in my opinion.
PaulB ....
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| Don
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2000-02-22 13091
Paula, I will be trading a like new 4100 to a dealer in NY soon. Just deciding between red and blue. How much are you going to mow? A 4' hog isn't very big. You may want to go the next size tractor. ....
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| Paula Freyer
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2000-02-25 13155
Guys - thanks millions for the input. I'm still not sure exactly what I'm going to do but I'm leaning towards a 4200 (I want the 6' finish mower and I understand that the 4100 can only handle a 5')if I go with JD but I'm still going to check out the K and the NH. If $ wasn't an issue, I'd buy the JD in a heartbeat but...unfortunately, my name isn't Ivana (smile!). I really do appreciate your advice - thanks again. Paula ....
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| Kevin in KS
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2000-02-27 13196
Have you considered the JD 790? I'm getting one delivered this week, best compact tractor JD makes for the money. But it all depends on what you are going to use it for as to how big is big enough. ....
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| SteveofNJ
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2000-02-27 13205
Paula, Just a quick comment. I believe the 4100 can not take a backhoe, and a 4200 can, so if you plan on any backhoe work, go with the 4200.
Also, I have a 790 and it can handle a backhoe with no trouble. I plan on getting a Woods hoe this spring (soon as money allows. The 790 is a bigger machine than the 4100, and is much more of a machine when viewed side by side. Also, the 790 4wd with 70 loader and turf tires and ballast box can be had for $13,700.00 or so. Gear vs Hdry. is not an issue unless you can't drive stick shift :)
Still love my 790 after many snow storms. Too bad winter is almost over.... ....
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| Paula Freyer
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2000-02-28 13219
Kevin - I checked out the 790 on the JD web page - it might be just want I need at a reasonable price - how come I never heard anyone else mention this model? Must not be a big seller - and if that is indeed the case, makes you wonder why. If anyone knows of any problems with the 790, PLEASE warn me! Also note that JD actually quotes a price under $11K on the page I've shown here!
Thanks again! .....Paula ....
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| SteveofNJ
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2000-02-28 13221
Ummm! Maybe you should look at some threads on this board. The 790 has been a topic of many conversations. It is JD answer to the Kubota people. It is a 30hp Compact with a 70 loader for around $13,700.00 I have one, although I paid 14,700.00 for mine, and I can't stop bragging about how happy I am.
Further more, just becuase you haven't heard of the tractor doesn't mean it isn't any good. The 790 is for the person who wants the most for his money, and doesn't need the little bells and whistles of the 4000 series. Apples for Apples it is a better machine then the 4100 and can handle a backhoe with no problem, something the 4100 can not offer. Other than that, the HP of the PTO is 25HP which is better than anything Kubota has in this price range. Not to consider the 790 would be a big mistake. If someone could show me a better machine for the price, I would have bought it.
Good luck, and know you have heard of the 790.
PS, you may not buy a 790 for under 11k as they say on the web. If you want the loader you need some plumbing that isn't included in the price, as well as turf tires and mid PTo I think is additional. Once again, it is a great machine. ....
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| MichaelSnyder
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2000-02-28 13225
Paula,
Interesting you would mention your concern for JD's price, in relationship to Kub or NH. When we were in the market, the JD 4100 beat Kub's B2100 by about $1000 for the same package. But if you ask me about size, I think the 4100 is a bit small for what you've stated. I love our's, but I only have 2 acres...so all things considered...I have plenty of tractor for our needs. ....
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| sam compher
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2000-02-28 13226
The 790 is alot more tractor for about the same money as 4100. Got new 790, 70 loader, 60" mid mower for $15750 in Oct. 790 has exceeded my expections in snow & dirt work. this seris 770, 790, etc. has a proven track record over last 10 to 15 years. Best buy if you want a gear drive. ....
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 | cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York 
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2000-02-28 13228
Paula,
The 790 sounds like a bargain until you add it up. You can buy a 27hp Kabota or 25hp Boomer WITH hydro, 60" loader and 72" finish mower for 19K. $15750 for the JD may not include a mid pto or an exhaust system that allows clearance to fit into a garage. The resale would get your money back for the hydro if that was your concern. I have mowed and operated a loader with both types of tractor and I "trimmed" 30 minutes from a three hour finish mowing job at my home by going hydro. ....
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| SteveofNJ
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2000-02-28 13232
Cutter, just to note; the 790 will not fit in a garage because of the ROP so exhaust pipe isn't an issue. Second, Kubota does not make a 30hp diesel with a 25hp PTO . Finally Many have posted 13,700 for the machine 4wd/mid and rear pto turf tires/ 70 loader and ballast box. A read mower deck costs between $800-1,800, I have even seen a nice deck for under 600.00 in the Northern Hardware catalog. Don't thing Kubota or Boomer (who I thought had gone out of business, but what do I know)has anything close to a 790 in price. As I recall you have to get into the L2500 before you start to compare to the size and power..... ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2000-02-29 13247
I heard, not sure where, that JD is phasing out the 90 series in favour of the 4000 series. Even if true, don't suppose it makes a lot of difference since tractor makers support out of production models for decades.
The 790 does seem to be very well regarded. Don't think I've heard even one bad comment.
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| Paula Freyer
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2000-02-29 13250
Okay, I like mainly what I'm reading about the 790 - its obvious that I was not really informed of this series - probably because all of the local dealers are 'shoving' the 4000 series down my throat! Am I correct is saying that I understand that the 790 does NOT have hydro? Thats the only downfall (slight as it is) that I'm really picking up. By the way, I don't need a loader - just 3-pt hitch, and rear PTO - does that make a difference in my final selection? Doesn't Kabota has a home page? - I can't seem to find one. Paula ....
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| SteveofNJ
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2000-02-29 13252
Hi again Paula,
The 790 does not have a hydro option. It is a economic work horse. Period.
Look at the 3 point hitch on the 790 and note the quality too, I was much more impressed with it's hitch for some reason, then the 4100.
Oh, the 790 uses the old '7' series attachments, which are to be phased out. As far as the 90 series, I thought I heard rumor of a new 990 or something of that nature coming out soon. But, even if they do phase it out, don't forget that you can get parts for JD's from the early day's of production. So, I am sure the 790 parts will be around for a good long time. I think other than a clutch, not sure what else you would ever break on the 790 without a loader anyway.
I'm telling you, go look at this machine next to the 4100, nothing else will need to be said. I also don't have many of those problems I read about some of the 4100's having.
Guess you can tell how much I like my 790. Sorry to keep pushing it. I am just a true Green man and proud of the machine. And with my past experience in hating John Deere, this is an impressive accomplishment.
....
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| Norm
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2000-02-29 13254
Paula,
I don't know how you can have a horse farm and not need a loader - you might be able to do without it, but I guarantee that once you have one you will not understand how you ever managed without. If you do get a loader, you will find that hydrostatic is much more convenient. If you are looking for value for money, don't overlook a used 55 series. They are excellent, long lasting machines and are available on the used market, often with relatively low hours. Whatever you get, make sure it has 4wd. Good luck. ....
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| Jerri Neese
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2000-02-29 13262
Paula, looked at the Kubota's, NH's and the Deeres. All are good. Of these guys the 790 as mentioned gives you alot of tractor for the money. It's downside although slight is that lacks some of the specifications of the 4000 series when it comes to lift with the 3pt or say break out and lift with a loader and the same if you purchase a backhoe. Now on the plus side, the 790 offers more horsepower in a tractor comparable in size to the 4200/4300. It really depends on what you want to do. If you are pulling 3 point implements, then the extra horsepower will be of a benefit. If you are digging then the 4200 maybe a better bet. One last comment, when looking at the NH's and they were price competetive but offered a nice feature called the deluxe 3 point hitch with flexible link ends and crank operated leveling. Sort of handy. OK one last thing, as to prices, I was quoted from folks in Orangeburg, SC $10,800 for the 790 + $800 for the hydraulic kit (to power a loader) + $2655 for the loader. Hope this helps. Jerri ....
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| Jerri Neese
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2000-02-29 13263
Paula, feel like I am rambling but remembered this after I posted my response. The 790 uses a dry disc clutch and dry disc brakes while the 4000 series uses a wet disc system. With the brakes, this is an advantage. I should let you know that I did not buy one of the big brands so I can say that I am not biased one way or another. I has a difficult time justifying the cost for my first tractor so I bought an off color Massey 1030 or in other words a Hinomoto E2304 with loader for about $6500. Good luck with your shopping. Jerri ....
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962 
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2000-02-29 13264
Paula, You asked about Kubota's home page; yep, they have one. It looks like you might have misspelled the name when you were searching. And I'll agree with some of the others' messages that I don't know how you can manage without a front end loader, and while the 790 is undoubtedly a fine tractor, I sure wouldn't want a compact tractor without a hydrostatic transmission. ....
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| cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2000-02-29 13268
Steve,
Of course the prices will vary, as I have found this last go around with a trade. However, what I was trying to convey, is that many people overlook the real world use of a peice of equipment and settle for less to save a few bucks. The size and hp of the 790 are great features, but I can attest through experience that it is a hell of a lot cheaper to spend the big buck once on what you really will want and need, than to trade up twice and take that loss up the wahzoo. Paula should decide her exact needs and then purchase the best tractor that fits her needs, not the cheapest. I can tell from her last post that she is reluctant over the gear drive. If that is not the case, then by all means, purchase the 790. It is a lot of machine for the $. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2000-03-01 13283
I re-read the intended uses for the tractor. Mowing is on the list. Live PTO is very good, especially if finish mowing is needed. Sort of looks like a bad hair cut if the blades slow down when the tractor is gliding to a stop. Same issue, but more tolerable, for other types of mowing. Live PTO also is good for snow blowing. I don't know if the 790 has live PTO.
Regarding HST in a compact: Some say HST in a compact is essential. I went the other way. I reasoned that lack of power/traction can stop you cold, and there's precious few horses in compacts to start with. Fewer horses means smaller tires, so there's less traction as well. I reasoned that gears put more engine power on the ground than HST. In addition, the money saved by not getting HST meant that I could get a bigger tractor--with bigger tires. Guess my strategy was to get something big enough to do about 90% of what I need (which includes some construction) and save about 10% for contractors.
Sometimes contractors are cheaper than having a huge machine, but a steady stream of contractors at your door will thin out a wallet too. I just tried to get a tractor that I could keep as busy as possible without breaking the bank. ood reasoning on my part
There are somethings to keep in mind about manual transmissions. My transmission gives 3 syncromeshed forward gears in each of 4 ranges. With a manual transmission, it's important to know if you can shift on the fly. With syncromesh, you can; without, the answer if either 'no' or 'with difficulty.' I can shift the 3 speeds but not the ranges on the fly.
It's also important to consider if the tractor ever will be worked in reverse (e.g. 3ph snow blowing or dozing with a back blade). With a PTO implement like a 3ph blower, you have to run at PTO rpm, and the only way to adjust speed is with the transmission. I have 4 reverse gears. I'm not sure I'd like having only 2 reverses. Even if dozing with a back blade, I imagine that it could be tough to find the right combination of speed and rpm with only two reverses.
I think HST is much better at allowing you chose a comfortable operating speed while maintaining PTO rpm and also in changing from forward to reverse. But, I made my choice, and I got some power in exchange for spitting gears and wearing out clutches with loader work. Think it worked for me.
....
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