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 | Oliver
Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 210 Massachusetts 
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2004-04-28 84621
So I was all set to go ahead with the 7510 and started calling around for prices. One guy told me to avoid the 7510 and go with a 7800 or 2710 because I will have more control over the 3PH on the larger machines. My question is with the new quarter inch valve 3PH (on the 7510 and the 7800), isn't it easy to control the height of an implement like rake or back blade? Or, is the QIV only helpful when one is attaching an implement?
I know the guy (and his reputation) who told me to buy the bigger machine -- and have had a bad service and sales experience with him in regards to an L3130 I bought from hi9m for my school (once he delivered everything we have been realy happy with the equipment, though). That said, his price on the 7510 is $300 less, on the 7800 $1100 less, and the B2710 with loaded R3's and 402 loader $15,200 ($400 less than the best price I can get for a 7800).
What do people think -- is this guy right about the 3PH control? I will be going back to the other dealer, who I really like, in the hope that they can come closer to these prices.
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 | oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1490 south central pa 
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2004-04-28 84624
You do have more control with the standard 3pt rather than the qiv. The reson is that on the qiv is is like moveing a regular hyd, lever you only have 3 positions up neutral and down/float, yes you can put the arems any where you want them but what if you are raising and lowering alot? You wod have to look back every time or constanly try to find the perfect position you had before. With the standard you set your down stop and you know where you had it every time. Both will work well it would just take some getting used to. ....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada 
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2004-04-28 84625
The issue is Position Control vs. Stop and Drop.
With position control you get a numbered scale to move the control lever against. If you know, for instance, that your rear blade just touches earth at 6.5 on the scale, then you can repeat that setting and get the same blade position every time at the same number setting.
If you are using a 1/4 inch valve or a stop/drop system, then every time you raise the blade you will have to manually re-set/eyeball the position when you lower it to get the same setting.
If you are doing any significant grading or box blading the position control is well worth the extra money.
If you use the 3 point just to haul counter weight for the FEL or as a place to attach a bagging system, you can get by nicely with a stop/drop system. ....
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 | beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-04-28 84635
First of all, the 7800 and the 7510 have the same 1/4" valve, so going from the 7510 to the 7800 for better control is senseless. They will both be the same.
I have the 7800 with the 1/4" valve and have stated many times it is the only thing about the machine I would change. The previous post is right on, it isn't very useful for grading work. You can't set a repeated grading height like you can with position control.
With a few months of head scrathing and a couple different designs, I now have a position indicator on my 7800 3-point that allows me to reset the grade elevation without turning around, and with excellent repeatability. Necessity is the mother of all invention.
If you like to tinker, there are ways to overcome the shortfall, but know going in that all the B7xxx series tractors have the 1/4" valve and it is somewhat a compromise from position control. It was something Kubota put on these machines to make them cost competitive. Other than the 3-point control, it is an excellent tractor. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-04-29 84673
Irrespective of the 3ph type everybody needs to get the hang of it for grading. No matter how the height is set the blade height changes when the tractor goes over bumps and dips. It's not uncommon for me if I'm cutting down a bump with a scraper to set a height and then the blade digs in too early when the front wheels go over the bump. Chances are that there's a dip the other side of the bump and then the box dumps its load where I don't want it.
Everybody gets used to dealing with this issue and develops their own styles. My position control hitch doesn't cure the problem for me. I haven't used other type 3ph's so I don't know if position control makes it easier or not. I'm not sure I've ever been able to set the position gauge and then cut the tops off bumps the length of a drive without touching the 3ph.
Most of the time I at least need to lower the 3ph more than a gauge would be set to keep a box from dumping when the front wheels go into a dip. I also found the 3ph lift wasn't timely or precise enough to keep the blade from gouging when I didn't want it to. Well, it's easy for me to trash 3ph control for grading work because I have a hydraulic top-link. Since I got it I virtually never touch the 3ph when grading except for picking up and dumping loads. I think of position control as mainly useful for plowing but maybe the top-link spoiled me. ....
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| kubotaguy
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 360 Shepherdstown, WV
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2004-04-29 84675
I have the 7800 and I like the QIV on it. If I am using the box blade with the rippers and I start to loose traction I can bump it up a 1/4" at a time until I regain traction. I have used it to grade my driveway and I don't see a problem. As Tom said regardless of what type of 3ph you have it will follow the tractor and you will have to get the hange of it. ....
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| Oliver
Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 210 Massachusetts
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2004-04-29 84687
I am a bit unclear on what a hydrolic top link is for; is this to change the angle of a rear attachment like a box scraper or blade? How expensive of an add-on is it? I will have a 350'+ driveway to grade, as well as my parents and inlaw's driveways which are 100' and 250', respectively. Is this something I will use alot? ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2004-04-29 84696
If I had three driveways to maintain I would absolutely have hydraulic top and tilt, AND I would opt for position control, even if you have settle for less HP to get it.
It is about a $1000-$1200 add-on.
In essence, it is the "fine tuning knob" used to regulate the blade of the fly.... if you can consider 1 mph flying. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-04-30 84766
A fair bit of Mark's price estimate is likely for a rear hydraulic outlet. Rear valve controlled and PB outlets are useful for all sorts of implements other than a box scraper. I use my single valve controlled rear outlet with a box scraper, snow-blower and forklift. I need two for the forklift and have to steal one from the loader. With a second one I could add side tilt to the 3ph as well. I also use the valve-controlled outlet for a backhoe but a PB hookup would be better.
I found that blade angle is almost everything in controlling the action of a scraper. Shortening the link increases the cut when going forward and decreases it in reverse. I lengthen the link if I break traction rather than raise the 3ph. It's more precise and I never overdo it and dump the load. I adjust the rate of cut frequently. When cutting a grade, the link can be lengthened to stop the cutting so loads can be dragged for spreading. Lengthening it more spreads a load. All these operations can be done without stopping, getting off the tractor and guessing how much adjustment is needed. ....
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