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tchunter13
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2001-01-29          23795

I would like to dig a quarter acre pond about 4 feet deep. Will a JD 955 with a front load and backhoe be enough machine? Any suggestions would be appreciated since I am new to this.How about using the 955 for food plots(1 acre)? What attachments would it need. This is planned for a currently wooded area that I would remove the trees.

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Todd
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2001-01-29          23798

Oh boy, a quarter acre is about 11,000 square feet. Times four feet deep is 44,000 cubic feet of dirt. Divide that by 27 cu ft / yard is about 1600 yards of dirt. I'd guess you can get 1-2 cubic feet per scoop with a backhoe on a JD955. That's 22,000 scoops. Then you'd have to move that dirt with the bucket!
Since I have a B2710 (about the size of the 955), and need our pond enlarged to something similar, I know this math is a little depressing. When I first got my tractor I had dreams of digging Lake Todd in the backyard, so we could skate on it in the winter. I've given up on that. If I had unlimited funding, I'd get a CAT 330B excavator and a dump truck. The 330B is 236HP and 76,300lbs, or about 35 times the size of the Deere955 or my Kubota, and it probably costs about the same as my house.
I guess the short answer is, you could do it, but it would take you forever. And that's assuming there aren't going to be any tree stumps too big to get out with your equipment. Me, I'm going to hire an excavator. If you have your heart set on doing it yourself, you could rent an excavator, but that's still a lot of dirt, and besides picking it up, you have to move it somewhere, somehow. There's another thread today about a scaper/dirt mover. The one for a 955 sized tractor is .8cu yards, but it only digs 3" deep. It rekindled my hope for Lake Todd for about a minute. Oh well :)
....

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Todd
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2001-01-29          23799

I forgot, you also asked about food plots. I rototill about a quarter of an acre for our garden each year, going over it twice with my similarly sized tractor, in about 1 to 2 hours. Our garden is a hobby, and a quarter acre produces more tomatos, squash, cucumbers, sugar snap peas, and strawberrys than we can eat, and even gives us some corn. The real farmers here will probably need to know how many total acres would you'd be growing food on? I'm curious, iss this going to be a full time job, a hobby, or something in between??
Todd ....

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Alan L. Lewis
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2001-01-29          23802

I also have a Kubota B2710. I wouldn't attempt it unless you are moving very soft dirt. Even then it would take a long time.

Around here you could have that dug with a bulldozer for $1,000 to $1,500. If the pond is for fish everything I read says it should be a minimum of 8 feet deep, otherwise you could have oxygen problems for the fish, especially you have hot summers.

One recommendation though regardless of who does the work. Scrape that topsoil off and put it in a pile and use it or sell it later. Its like gold. I have more than acre of good topsoil covered up by yellow clay fill dirt because I failed to have the dirt guy save my topsoil. Now I find that its about $10 a yard.

When I had all my dirtwork done, including a 1.5 acre, 12-foot deep pond, I was quoted 90 cents per cubic yard of dirt moved. This is probably more expensive than average, but I wanted this particular guy to do my work and I'm not disappointed. The tank was dug in August and after all these rains in North Texas this winter it is filled to brim and is beautiful - it has inlets and hardly any dam at all, plus a well-designed spillway.

A friend of mine had a small pond similar to what you're talking about quoted at $800 by a guy who has a bulldozer. He thought that was too high! ....

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Ted Kennedy
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2001-01-30          23803

TC, a pond this size is a project and a half. I install small ponds of 3500 to 6000 gallons in the Japanese style gradens I design, and use a Cub with a 7.5 foot hoe and FEL, or a Case 580. I think you could do the job with your machine under ideal conditions: good soil, no rain, plenty of time, plenty of room for your spoil pile, etc. But since when do we have ideal conditions. I did one 6000 gal. pond for a young couple who couldn't understand why I had to sub-contract to an excavator for the removal of a ten ton boulder I had no idea was there, thus raising the cost of the project. The folks who've responded before me have given you good advice, bring in the big machines first for the rough-in, and do the finishing work yourself. Sorry I don't know a thing about farming, although I use a rototiller for lawn and landscape planting beds. Best of luck, it sounds like a neat project. ....

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TomG
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2001-01-30          23806

Irrespective of the machinery issues, I'd seek some expert advice. Things like deciding whether the water source is adequate to keep the pond filled, or whether a liner is needed take some particular skills. Having a pond turn into a mud flat in August wouldn't be great. There also may be some options other than a large excavation. The stock ponds my uncles had all used earthen dams. It's easier to fill up an existing low place with water than it is to dig a new one. Of course, construction of an earthen dam takes its own set of knowledge. Finally, I'd check for local regulations. The natural resources people around here have gotten very touchy about their waterways. If the water source is a small creek, there probably would be permits etc. required around here. ....

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Todd
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2001-01-30          23807

Ted,
Is my math wrong? I get about a 325,000 gallon pond, for a quarter acre at 4 foot deep pond. 1 cubic foot equalling 7.48 gallons. If you make this 8 feet deep, you'd double that.
Alan,
Is that what topsoil is worth delivered, or can we sell it to an excavator to offset the cost of the work? Since I'm going to have this type of job done this summer, your numbers are reasuring to me.
Tom
Good point. Because our current pond's inflow silted in, and the dam out was removed, we do get the August mud flat. Hoping to fix that! ....

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Art White
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2001-01-30          23811

I often have this question asked about building a pond and I always give the same answer. Get a pro to do it the money is well worth it. I've enjoyed playing with these smaller machines as well as far larger excavators and dozers. Even with working with the commercial Kubota's, I haven't had a L-48 to play with yet I don't think there would be enough time to do it fast enough for the volume of fill to be moved. retail and wholesale prices of dirt are different but good silt should sell. Compact tractors can do the finish work and in a reasonable time period and cost. Thats my two cents for what it is worth! ....

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Ted Kennedy
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2001-01-30          23812

Todd, a quarter acre in area is 10,890sqft, times 4ft, equals 43,560ft3, times 7.58 equals 330.184 and 8 tenths gallons. Close enough for this project. Remember, an irregularity of 6 inches by five feet by five feet will increse your volume by yards, or gallons, and it is hard to make a perfect grade unless you have experience. Even the walls will add, or delete, gallons because of variations in how the soil behaves when you excavate. The issue of permits was raised by TomG and he is square on the money. I didn't raise it because I figured that you are in farm country and that your codes are much different (liberal?) from ours in New England. But TomG is right, before you dig, have your plans blessed by the local powers. A big issue involving any existing waterway or stream, etc. is the Federal Wetlands law, you could face a huge fine or time in the lockup for violating these very strict laws, so err on the side of caution. Sealing the pond used to be simple, there was an oil based chemical you could pump into the standing water and as it sank, would seal any soil leaks. Too bad it is illegal to use now, you know, EPA restricted. Your pond is really too big for EPDM so you'll have to rely on the density of your soil, hope it's good thick clay. I would pump aerate the water at least twice a day, for a half hour. Finally, think about sinking a well, a deep well, with an automatic level replenishment switch to keep you topped up. I don't think you'll have much luck getting permission to divert an existing waterway, but you won't know until you try. Good luck. ....

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Frank R Taylor
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2001-01-30          23813

The other posters have it right ... hire the big boys to do the hard work. After watching them build the dam for the lake at my mother-in-law's place, there is no way I would attempt that with a compact tractor. I doubt if I would live that long. You could certainly do the tidying up work with a compact but if the big equipment is there, why bother. I wouldn't even run my B2400 on some of the slopes that they routinely run their dozers on. If you have a spillway, it's design is crucial. You don't want the overflow running down the back of the dam or it will wash out. Best of luck with your project.
As far as the garden is concerned, it depends a lot on the soil that you have but either way your tractor should be able to handle it. Lots of people recommended plowing and then tilling but I went straight to the tiller and made 3 passes and it worked great. It'll be a lot of hard work with a walk behind tiller but it can be done. I just got a Kuhn 50" tiller for my 24hp (19 PTO) Kubota and it was expensive but it is a magic piece of machinery. I've extended my hobby garden to about an acre and I think it will supply us with fresh veg all summer long. ....

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Frank R Taylor
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2001-01-30          23814

i forgot to add that if you have big equipment come in to build your pond, have them remove the trees on your garden area as well. They might even throw it in for free since they are there anyway. Removing tree stumps with a FEL and backhoe on a compact tractor is not the easiest of things to do. It's time comsuming, hard work, not to mention potentially dangerous to you and the tractor. I've done it a couple of time with a borrowed machine (no backhoe on mine) and it's never easy. I think it's much better to spend your time doing the fun stuff like digging and planting your garden than beating yourself and your equipment to death. ....

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Alan L. Lewis
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2001-01-30          23815

That price for topsoil (about $10 a yard) is delivered. Thats a GOOD price - I've seen it even higher. The main thing is, when they dig that point there will be lots of worthless subsoil and claypan exposed. You would then use your JD to re-apply the topsoil to the surface after the job is finished. ....

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Roger L.
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2001-01-30          23821

That is a very good price on topsoil. I pay $26/cubic yard plus about a dollar a mile per yard for delivery. Worse, the topsoil itself has quite a bit of clay in it. So I'd recommend saving your topsoil regardless of the cost. Most contractors will buy the subsoil if they are having to put it in the truck anyway, but the cost to haul it is about what subsoil is worth. You will find lots of work for the compact tractor. Just the clean up from a project that size will make it worth your while to have the tractor. ....

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droz
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2001-01-31          23829

I just had two ponds put in last year of about 150 x 50 feet apiece (4-5 feet deep). Sure I would have loved to have done it myself but as stated above, it would have been next to impossible. Fortunately I am in a Conservation Resource Program that mostly paid for me to put them in for wetland restoration. I hired a guy with a big swamp dozer (he called it) and it took him two long days to do it. Plus, it got more and more difficult as the water flowed in so nothing without metal tracks would have moved in it. It cost about $1800 total. Some things we have to farm out no matter how much we want to do it. I have had enough trouble just moving around the area with my Bobcat or tractor while trying to landscape the area when it was wet. ....

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tchunter13
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2001-01-31          23834

Thanks to all for the insight and responses. You have given me several things to think about that make a lot of sense. Thanks again. ....

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Michigander
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2001-02-02          23891

I too have been considering putting in a pond. Lots of good stuff in this thread. I only have a couple things to add. First, Regarding the permits, check around to see if anyone else in your area has put in a pond. This should save some time running around to different agencies. Here in MI we have the Drain Commission, Soil Conservation board, Township, etc. One big taboo is to alter any existing drain or waterway (creek) Second, I discovered that a local developer would come in and dig my pond (similar size) for free if he could have the top soil and fill. I have a TC40D with a Kelley hoe. While it is fun to dig for a few hours now and then, I also realized this big of a project would take some of the fun out of it. It was usefull for digging test holes to see how well they would hold water. My issue was with only 7' of digging depth with my hoe, I would have to dig the whole thing out then get down in the hole and dig some more to get to 10' deep. (below winter freeze) My test holes fill almost instantly to with a foot of the top with water. Trading the fill in exchange for digging the pond out seems like a good deal to me. ....

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TomG
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2001-02-03          23914

Mich: The topsoil used to finish filling an old cellar and constructing a leeching pit came the same way. Free to the trucker in exchange for building a road. Seems like that sort of deal may be common. At any rate, it would be good for anybody who does a large excavation to recognize that the topsoil removed is valuable. I suppose some contractors would tell a person they're doing them a favour by hauling it away. ....

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kw
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2001-02-26          24709

However you dig your pond, I would suggest compacting it with a sheepsfoot roller when you are finished digging. It compacts it so much better than a dozer. This is from my experience. I just built a 1 acre pond in southern Indiana. Check out link included. It is very helpful. ....


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gary mason
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2001-02-27          24758

we had a 3/4ac pond dug a 2 years ago by a local contractor. He had a CAT 318 trakhoe and a little dozer. We already had a low area so we already had a 4' pond after the trees were taken out. He dug out another few feet down to 15-18' deep in other areas(hit rock in some spots) He used the good clay to build the pond dam, our driveway. The topsoil was stockpiled off to the side and no dirt was trucked off our property. That saved on the cost.
As a side note speaking from great expierience, build the dam/overflow pipe like your going to build your house on it. For us we needed 3 12" overflow pipes because our pond if filled from several small streams and one big 18" road pipe that drains ~40ac around our development. Unfornutatly we caught the edge of the big hurricain Floyd right after the pond pipes were in and we got 13" of rain over 36 hours. It filled the pond up in less than 2 hours and washed out the pipes in another hour. There were several mistakes made by the contractor in the laying of the pipes. These were corrected in the next try, and it's been golden ever since.
The cost for all this was in the 3k range, that's about 3 days worth of loader/dozer work and just a few materials.
I sat the poles in the pond for a dock while it was empty also.
gary ....

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Jeff Earthwerks Unli
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2002-09-19          42673

I'm enlarging a guy's pond that he originally had dug for backfill around his new home with a NH 555 4x4 backhoe (he originally paid $5500 having a volume of 3,500 yds). It tookme three days and removed about 300 yds of clay---then spread it out over three acres. It is still not done. Plus I could only go down about 3 feet from the shore line being about 6 feet up from the water line. Today rented a 325 CAT excavator with a 30' reach and 3-yard bucket and it still won't go down and out far enough (he wants 15' deep). ($3000 just for rental for 50 hoursl). How ever you dig it you'll be moving every cubic foot of dirt AT LEAST twice! Ideally a bobcat would be great to move the spoils quickly to get them out of your way. After I am done I will have about $4000 just in my labor alone. ....


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TomG
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2002-09-20          42687

Sounds like the guy wants a pond sized well. Wonder how it will turn out? ....

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