Question on 3 ph backhoes: Back Hoe  -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum and Review Question on 3 ph backhoes: Back Hoe -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum

  parts   |   manuals   |   discussion   |   photos   |   podcast   |   reviews   |   specs   |   dealers   |   classifieds   |   contact   |   faq   |   myProfile   |   home          Login Now | Sign Up


FAQ:   What is a tractor?

Forum Index

Kubota Tractors
  Kubota News
  Kubota Price
  Kubota Review
John Deere Tractors
  John Deere News
  John Deere Price
  John Deere Review
New Holland Tractors
  New Holland Tractor Price
  New Holland Tractor Revie
Other Tractor Brands
  Articulated Tractors
  Belarus
  Bobcat Tractors
  Case
  Cub Cadet
  Hinomoto
  Kioti Tractor
  Long
  Massey Ferguson
  Mitsubishi
  Other Tractor Brands
  Other Tractor News
  Shibaura
  Yanmar Tractors
Lawn and Garden Tractors
  Craftsman
  Cub Cadet Garden
  John Deere Garden
  Kubota Lawn Garden
  Other Garden Tractors
  Simplicity
  Toro Wheelhorse
  Ventrac Lawn Tractors
Antique Tractors
  Allis Chalmers
  Case David Brown
  Farmall IHC
  Ford
  Ford 9N 2N 8N
  Fordson
  Harry Ferguson
  John Deere Older
  Massey-Harris Ferguson
  Minneapolis Moline
  Oliver Cletrac Cockshutt
  Restoration
  Tractor Pulling
Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph
  Back Hoe
  Field Mowers Brush Cutter
  Grooming Mowers Finish Mo
  Loaders
  Snowblowers / Snow Plows
  Tillers and Ploughs
  Tractor Implements
  Trenchers
  Wood Chippers 3PH
Tractor Maintenance
  Diesel Fuel Lubrication E
  Tractor Engine Repair Reb
  Tractor Tires
Utility ATV
  All Terrain Vehicles
  John Deere Gator
  Mule Utility Vehicles
General Tractor
  Farming Ranching Agricult
  Photo Contest
  Size Tractor Needed
  Tractor Projects
  Tractor Safety
  Welding
Chinese Tractors
  Jinma Farmpro Agracat
  NorTrac Tractors
  Other Chinese Tractors
Cars
  All Brands
  Audi VW
  BMW
  Car Tires and Maintenance
  Chrysler
  Exotic, Sports, Racing
  Ford Cars
  General Motors
  Honda
  Hyundai
  Mercedes
  News
  Nissan
  Subaru
  SUV and Trucks
  Toyota Cars
Trucks Trailers
  Chevy Pickup Trucks
  Dodge Pickup Trucks
  Ford Pickup Trucks
  Toyota Pickup Trucks
  Chevy Pickup Trucks
  Dodge Pickup Trucks
  Ford Pickup Trucks
  Toyota Pickup Trucks
Home Building
  Alternate Electric Energy
  Barns Pole Barns
  Buying Ranch Farm Acreage
  Carpentry
  Contractors
  Electric
  Excavation
  Moldings Finish Trim
  Other Home Building
  Pellet Stoves
  Plumbing
  Wood Stoves
Tools
  Electirc Power Tools
  Gas Power Tools
  Generators
  Shop Tools
  Techniques Howto
Landscape
  Flowers Shrubs Garden
  Golf Course Maintenance
  Irrigation Systems
  Landscape Design
  Landscape Lighting
  Landscape Maintenance
  Lawn, Turf, and Grass
  Vegetable Gardening
Construction
  Caterpillar
  Komatsu
  Wheel Loaders
Current Events Health Happiness
  Current Events
  Dogs and other Pets
  Electronics And Computers
  Food
  Health
  Just For Fun Off Topic
  Movies Music Games
  Personal Finance Investme
  Sports Outdoors
Tractorpoint Site
  Member Photos
  Site Members
  Website Operations Howto


New As Posted | Active Subjects



Click to Post a New Message!

Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Back Hoe Forum

Page [ 1 ] |
Reply | Pop Up Window Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo
 11-25-2001, 10:43 Post: 33405
BillMullens

TP Contributor

View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Central West Virginia
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 649

4
Filter by User
 Question on 3 ph backhoes

It seems I've seen this mentioned before in passing, and would like more details. Is it possible and safe to lock down the 3 point hitch arms somehow when attaching a 3ph backhoe? I'm looking for something that will work with a Cadplans hoe which doesn't have hydraulic stabilizers.
Thanks,
Bill






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 11-25-2001, 13:44 Post: 33408
Roger L.



Join Date: Jun 1999
Location:
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 0

2
Filter by User
 Question on 3 ph backhoes

I've never seen a tractor that allowed the 3pt to be locked solid with some onboard control. Maybe you could do it with the hydraulic rate valve, but I wouldn't recommend it. All of the 3pt hoes that I have seen so far have some sort of heavily built extra struts or clamps that lock the 3pt arms from moving.
I guess I don't understand the question on not having hydraulic stabilizers. All the backhoes I've ever seen have some sort of hydraulic stabilizer. A hoe would not work very well at all without them, and the potential for damaging the 3pt mounts would be high. Plus you are always adjusting the stabilizers because the downforces on them cause them to slide around and sink. Without hydraulics this would be tedious. Having said that, I'll confess that I sometimes use my little 3pt backhoe without the stabilizers or even hold downs on the the 3pt. But this is a special case when I happen to have the 3pt on the big category II farm tractor and am only doing a little bit of light work. The big tractor has a heavy 3pt assembly and also has the ability to turn off the hydraulic flow to the 3pt so that you don't accidentally trigger the draft control valve and cause the backhoe to rise up. 3pt hoes are VERY dangerous if you cannot disconnect draft control somehow. If you have any doubt about the tractor's draft control I'd sure figure that out completely before even thinking about a 3pt hoe. I speak from experience about that. I forgot to turn off my draft control one day and will never forget that experience. Terrifying and potentially expensive, too.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 11-25-2001, 20:51 Post: 33411
lsheaffer



View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Northern Illinois
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1017
 Question on 3 ph backhoes

What you can do to lock down the hoe from lifting is to make a bracket for the tractor drawbar to fasten 2 toplinks to & on iether side of the hoes toplink bracket make a bracket for the other end of the top links to fasten to. When attached this will create a solid triangle that will keep the arms from lifting






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 11-25-2001, 21:10 Post: 33413
BillMullens

TP Contributor

View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Central West Virginia
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 649

4
Filter by User
 Question on 3 ph backhoes

Thanks for the replies. Roger, the Cadplans hoes don't have hydraulic stabilizers; they have manually adjusted ones; you use the tractors 3 ph to raise and lower the whole hoe. You are then limited in downforce by the backhoe's attachment weight. I figured if I don't devise an actual mechanism of some kind (such as Leonard is talking about) to keep the 3ph from lifting, I'd at least make some sort of lock to keep the 3ph from being accidentally raised. Leonard, is what you are describing what is used in factory 3ph hoes? What happens if you accidentally raise the 3ph with the lock in place; wouldn't that tend to break the drawbar and/or attachment points? Or, am I over-estimating how much force the 3ph has in comparison to the drawbar strength.

I'm interested in locking down the 3ph for safety, and perhaps to enhance the performance of the hoe. The main complaint I've seen about these hoes is that (because they don't have the weight of the tractor on them) they tend to bounce around a lot when in use.

Thanks,
Bill






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 11-26-2001, 00:42 Post: 33416
Roger L.



Join Date: Jun 1999
Location:
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 0

2
Filter by User
 Question on 3 ph backhoes

No hydraulic stabilizers?! I haven't looked at any of those plans, but that seems to be an unusual design. Not all bad though.... at least it is a situation that anyone who is clever enough to weld up their own backhoe should be able to remedy with a couple of hours of work. I think you will be much more pleased with the results of the project if you add workable stabilizers.
When you design the hydraulic stabilizers be sure that they swing out sideways as far as is reasonable for your clearance. About 20 or 30 years ago there were some backhoes marketed with hydraulic stabilizers that dropped straight down from the corners of the backhoe instead of swinging wide. The result was that the tool had a narrow support. They worked.....but had problems with swing stability. That design wasn't what I'd call a no-brainer; just a newbie mistake.
As far as sizing the upper limiting struts and the strength of the drawbar connection it would vary depending on your particular tractor. To give you an idea of how to think about it, consider this: On tractors that have draft control, it is actuated when the top link is put into compression. And since that normally happens when the lower arms are being forced up, it means that you will have to add the appropriate forces that the backhoe can put into the lift arms together with the normal lifting force of the 3pt in order to figure the strength of the restraint that you are going to build.
It does sound like a great project! I hope you go for it....






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 11-26-2001, 06:22 Post: 33419
Art White



View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Waterville New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 6850

2
Filter by User
 Question on 3 ph backhoes

Years ago Long built a backhoe that when connected to the tractor it was not locked down. They stopped years ago from building this design do to liability. Your best bet is to fasten a chain around the drawbar so the three point will only lift so high and then the drawbar will catch it. With nearly all tractors having rollbars that unit sure will be a major case for a headache.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 11-26-2001, 06:46 Post: 33425
BillMullens

TP Contributor

View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Central West Virginia
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 649

4
Filter by User
 Question on 3 ph backhoes

Roger, follow this link or go to cadplans.com to help me clarify how these little hoes work. Probably the best picture is the "tractor and frame 1".
As I've been discussing in another topic, I believe that these machines are similar to backhoes, in that they are hydraulically actuated buckets, but really not identical in operation details and what they will do. I suspect that anybody that has used a traditional backhoe wouldn't think too highly of the Cadplans hoes, but anybody whose alternative is a shovel and pick would love them.
I appreciate the suggestions and positive comments. I'm 18-1/2 hours into this project and have only to weld together the boom, boom extension, and bucket before fitting the hydraulics and painting.
Thanks,
Bill






Link:   Click Here 

Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 11-26-2001, 07:01 Post: 33428
Art White



View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Waterville New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 6850

2
Filter by User
 Question on 3 ph backhoes

Bill if thats your welding you are doing excellent. The design differences of these style hoe's is you have no down pressure to dig in with. The stabalizers by being fixed and the three point not being locked as in the other makes and kinds makes it difficult to start digging down. When you dig pulling towards you and you donot need down pressure to dig you can do fine. That is why I suggested a loose chain around the drawbar just as the updated Long used till they changed there design.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
 11-26-2001, 12:17 Post: 33440
BillMullens

TP Contributor

View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Central West Virginia
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 649

4
Filter by User
 Question on 3 ph backhoes

Art, I like the chain suggestion. I'd been thinking along the lines of solid links (such as Leonard is talking about); the problem being the solid links wouldn't let the hoe sink into the ground any more than when you first set-up. Thanks for the idea!
Some of my flat position butt welds are suffering from porosity; not present in the fillet welds. This is the first time I've used 7018 rods and am just learning the ins and outs. I think that base metal contamination (oil) is the culprit.
Bill






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us |
Reply | Pop Up Window Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


Page [ 1 ] |

Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Back Hoe Forum

Thread 33405 Filter by Poster:
Art White 2 | BillMullens 4 | lsheaffer 1 | Roger L. 2 |

 (advanced search)

Picture of the Day
videorov

Belarus - Belarus 250AS Tractor axle replacement
Belarus 250AS Tractor axle replacement


Unanswered Questions

Shibaura SD2203 rear axle oil
Mitsubishi MX55
Gator HPX ignition module
SL 1643
Removing LHS rear wheel beari
Gear Grinding 1200A - primary
Replacing a friction diskwashe
Bolens k1502 mitsubishi K3 ove


Active Subjects

Big country 4x2 utility vehicl
Operation
lift cylinder for 3pt hitch wo
Still have jerk in hydro
Flatulent gifts human and dog
front mount snowblower
Hydraulics Won t Work
4210 ehydro codes


Hot Topics

NorTrac Tractor Quality Review
Case 446 hydraulic pump
Long 460 hydraulic problem
Jinma Tractor w transmission p
Flatulent gifts human and dog
Generator set up ideas wanted
6X4 Gator Sometimes Shudders
Roof VP75 Brush Mower Manual


Featured Suppliers

Mountain Creek Labradoodles
      MountainCreekLabradoodles.com





New Forums on Gun Sport Shooting and Hunting -- BarrelPoint.com  New Forums on Horses ManePoint.com
Talk Horses at ManePoint
Hunting + Gun Sports at BarrelPoint



Most Viewed

+ Woods 9000 sub-frame backhoe
+ Backhoe Hydraulic Hose Line Set up
+ Kit Built Backhoe Review Advice
+ small backhoe bucket
+ Taylor-Way backhoe Reviews
+ subframe vs 3 point
+ Case backhoe value-kelly blue book
+ JD model 48 backhoe attachment plates for JD 4600
+ corrugated drain line under driveway
+ kelly backhoe

Most Discussion

+ Backhoes and breaking frames
+ Backhoe Hydraulic Hose Line Se
+ Back hoe on a sub-compact
+ JD 48 Dipper cylinder
+ TC33D New Holland breaking in
+ THUMB SIZE
+ CADDigger 608 Building Experie
+ Backhoe decision help
+ subframe vs 3 point
+ Backhoe Bucket sizes

Newest Topics

+ Update - Backhoe Attachment
+ woods backhoe bh106 what is the weight
+ Rigid Toplink for 3 point hitch Backhoe
+ 3PH Backhoe Flushing Lines and Cylinders
+ Brands Mfg 3pt backhoe
+ LW-6 3 point hitch
+ cub cadet 7205 Which backhoe will fit
+ 8LD Bucket
+ LW-6 3ph backboe how to test pump after hydraulic
+ backhoe for deutz agrotron 155cv
















Turbochargers for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Cab Glass for Tractors and Industrial Machines

Alternators for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Radiators for Tractors and Industrial Machines

Driveline Components for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Starter Motors for Tractors and Industrial Machines