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 05-11-2001, 18:25 Post: 28056
Chuck



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 Shibaura

Well guys I've tried checking the fluid level and the lift seems to have gotten weaker. Anyway when I use the lift for any period of time (10-15 Mins) it progessively gets worse until it finally quits completely. Tom I think it was you that asked if the pump makes a noise. Something does, it sounds kinda like power steering on a car when it's low on fluid. I noticed some talk about pressure valve adjustments on the chat ..... could that be a possible solution?






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 05-12-2001, 06:05 Post: 28072
TomG

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 Shibaura

Chuck: I believe it was Roger who asked about pump noise. It's not good news your problem isn't solved. I was asking if the oil became frothy or hot. The questions may be coming from similar ideas. I've never noticed any particular noise from the pump on my Ford 1710--also made by Shibaura. There is a slight 'flow' noise in the loader SCV lines when the hydraulics are worked. There is a 'screaming' when the pressure relief opens. And, there is a smaller scream when the power steering operates. A faulty pressure- relief valve could cause weak hydraulics, but I think they would they tend to be weak all the time. Some months back several people on this Board worked through a very similar problem--loss of hydraulics after about a 1/2 hour of rotary cutting. As I recall, the problem turned out to be a partially clogged hydraulic filter. There were bits of hose material in it. The same person previously had a crack in the filter mounting that admitted air into the suction line that had been previously repaired. Both conditions can produce what you describe. Basically, the flow is insufficient and oil in the pump cavitates, which introduces more air into the oil and heats it. It takes time for the oil to become hot and frothy, which is why there can be fairly normal operation for awhile, and also why the problem clears when the tractor is shut down for awhile. Roger probably asked about pump noise, because a cavitating pump does make a noise, which I haven't experienced. I've heard it described as more of a humming or clicking. An obstruction in the high-pressure line also can produce similar problems. The oil doesn't get frothy, but it does heat up from being forced through smaller ports and lines that create more friction. With an obstructed HP line, the relief valve should open and scream. Incidentally, I'm not 100% certain, but I don't believe that a broken relief valve screams, since open before high pressure is developed. A couple of suggestions: change the hydraulic oil and filter if you aren't certain about their condition. There may be a Shibaura parts issue. I'm aware that many NH engine parts cross over to Shibauras. However, somebody said that some engine parts are different even though a Shibaura and Ford tractor may have the same engine code. It would be good to ensure somehow that the hydraulic filter in use actually is the one intended for the engine. A second suggestion if the tractor has a loader is the change the divertor valve (if present) to the 'remote' position. Only the 3ph should work in remote and any possibility of obstructions or relief valve failures in the auxiliary loader system would be eliminated. It also might be a good idea to get a pressure gauge and run a pressure test.






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 05-12-2001, 09:25 Post: 28078
Chuck



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 Shibaura

Tom thanks for all the time you give me trying to expain. I have a parts manuel ordered but as of now I cannot find a filter for the hydraulics. The lines to and from the 3 ph are both metal and look to be in good shape.
Thanks again......I'll just keep trying
Chuck






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 05-13-2001, 07:13 Post: 28109
TomG

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 Shibaura

If it's a spin on filter, you might have some luck cross-referencing it to an automotive filter. Some people have reported doing this and haven't reported adverse effects. However, there is no guarantee that a cross-referenced filter is an exact factory replacement that provides the same quality filtering and pressure bypass etc. There also is the issue of whether the pump could develop enough suction to collapse an automotive filter in event of a blocked suction line. I don't know the answers, and I suppose there may be some risk. I seem to recall that somebody identified a web site that contained a cross-reference table that included some models of tractors. I don't remember if the site was NAPA or a filter manufacturer site. The steel tubes you refer to are probably a big one and a little one that run from a block on the side of the engine to the TX/DIFF cases. Those probably are both 'from' lines. The larger is the high-pressure line to the 3ph, and the smaller one is the bypass line from the pressure relief valve. On my 1710, another line runs into the manifold block from the priority valve for power steering, which is mounted above the pump and on the other side of the engine. Again on my 1710, the manifold block also has two ports for auxiliary system connections and the diverter valve for selecting between remote and auxiliary systems. The valve position can be changed with a slot screwdriver. At least on my tractor, if there the auxiliary system isn't used (e.g. for a loader) no hoses should run to the manifold and the valve should be fully in the 'remote' position. The valve should be fully in the ‘auxiliary’ position if the auxiliary system is used. I'm speculating that a partially closed diverter valve could produce a severe flow restriction that could heat the oil and produce the problem. Anyway, if the tractor has a similar setup, the diverter valve is an easy enough thing to check. However, there is no indication on my manifold block that indicates which system the valve selects. If there are no auxiliary connections, and the valve is in the auxiliary position, the relief valve would open immediately when the tractor was started. If aux devices are connected, and the valve is in remote, then I believe the 3ph would work but not the aux equipment.






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 05-13-2001, 12:41 Post: 28116
Chuck



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 Shibaura

Tom, I didn't mean I could not find a filter to purchase, I meant I could not locate one on the tractor......Can I not see the forest for the trees? and by the way the fluid does not get hot and frothy. I can't figure it out
Thanks will check all the stuff you recommended.
Chuck






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 05-14-2001, 07:37 Post: 28141
TomG

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 Shibaura

Hope you get this one figured out. I think I'm out of easy fix ideas that could be done without a manual. Regarding filter location. Many compacts use spin-on canister types that shouldn't be hard to locate. Some use a permanent container with replaceable elements (the permanent container looks like a heavy-duty canister with a hex-head on top. The Ford 1310 (two steps smaller than mine) uses a different type permanent container that looks more like a metal cylinder that bolts onto the pump. Most filters are mounted near or on the pump. You can find the filter by tracing the suction line from the sump. The suction line usually is a large steel tube that attaches to the TX/DIFF case (The left side for Ford 17 & 1510's and the right side for 1310's) and runs forward to near the front of the engine. The line may have some rubber sections and may use ordinary hose clamps. Suction lines inevitably run to the filter. Many pumps are located near an engine’s front, because the pumps are driven from the cam or oil pump gears that are located under the timing gear cover that cover most of the front of an engine. A few pumps may be driven from a gear on the cam shaft and would be located near mid-engine.






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 05-17-2001, 14:13 Post: 28301
Chuck



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 Shibaura

Tom,

That did it. Thanks a million. It was the filter, clogged so tight that I don't know how anything was getting through it. It was the type that can be cleaned and was inside a canister that didn't even resemble a filter canister. But anyway I cleaned it and reinstalled it and everything works perfectly.
Thanks for everything. Maybe we'll be talking again.
Chuck






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 05-17-2001, 18:33 Post: 28308
TomG

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 Shibaura

Good to hear that something was fixed without major expense. Hope you have luck getting manuals--both an owner's and a repair is good. From the sound of the filter's condition, changing the hydraulic oil might be a good idea. Mine wasn't quite to a scheduled change, but I changed it anyway. A small flock of hydraulic oddities cleared up after the change. A manual would give intervals, recommended oils and capacities as well as all drain plug locations.






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 05-18-2001, 05:42 Post: 28324
TomG

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 Shibaura

As an after thought: If the filter cartridge is paper, it is probably intended to be replaced rather than cleaned. I think hydraulic filters are supposed to take out smaller particles than I'd expect cleanable filters to remove, but then I've been surprised before.






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 05-22-2001, 09:31 Post: 28439
Chuck



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 Shibaura

Tom that filter is metal but before I got it clean enough to tell I had already ordered a new one through the New Holland Dealer here in town. It cost $40.00 for that little thing. Anyway it works good .... Thanks for everything
Chuck






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