Go Bottomdeep tilling
 | bill
Join Date: Posts: 1 
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1999-12-10 10880
I use my compact tractor for working a small garden. I thinking about buying a tiller for this purpose but most only go about 6" to 7" deep. I would like to find a type that will till down to about 12" or more in order to effectively double-dig the soil.Any ideas on this?Bill
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| rm
Join Date: Posts: 1
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1999-12-11 10902
bill, I have found the best companion to a 3pt. tiller is a ground breaking implement, i.e., a plow or sub-soiler, middle-buster etc. Idea being to use the ground breaking implement down to the depth you wish to till. After breaking up or turning the soil the tiller will work with ease. I can bury my tiller after a couple of passes with this method in oklahoma hard clay soil. The sizing of ground engaging implements to tractor size and horsepower is important. ....
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 | JerryG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 54 NW AR
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1999-12-11 10916
If you want to really tear it up deep, get you a "one" bottom plow. Match the size to you tractor HP. They are made in 10",12",14" and 16". This plow will go deep and turn the soil upside down to bury the weeds, grass and stems. When you use a bottom plow you wouldn't have the hard ridge between the rows that you would have with a potato plow (middle buster). JerryG ....
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962 
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1999-12-12 10933
Bill, if anyone makes a tiller that will go 12", I haven't seen it yet. About 4 years ago, I started a new garden spot by just going over it many times with a new tiller, but a couple of weeks ago, I started an additional new spot by using the single bottom moldboard first, then the tiller, as mentioned above. That really does work SO much better and faster. ....
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| rm
Join Date: Posts: 1
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1999-12-12 10949
Bird, you got me wondering about my tiller today. I have a Befco G50. I got the tape measure out and found my tines tip to tip is 13". There is about a
1-1/2" clearance inside to the top of the 'box'. When I say 'bury' my tiller, the top of the box is riding maybe 3" above grade. It is so deep that the swing-gate on the back is wide open horizontal. I have my shoes pulled all the way up and they are running well below grade. My guesstimate is that I'm getting down 11" or better. Maybe someone can offer further insight?
Bill, I decided to put in an asparagus bed this fall. I wanted to go down really deep. Used the old 8N and 2-bottom plow to turn the soil. (Made several passes each direction). I then removed 6" of topsoil from the bed. After this I used the tiller to churn all that was left in the new bed. The newly tilled bed 'rose' like flour to become only 3" or so below grade. Now for my goals I plan to add sand and peat, but one could just as easliy bring the old topsoil back in to come back to grade. This method may not be practical for a large garden plot. Note: I do not have a front-end loader, just a poor man's version of one, the 3pt. dirt scoop. ....
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| bill
Join Date: Posts: 1
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1999-12-12 10952
Thanks jerryG, Bird, and m for the advise. The moldboard plow looks like the way to go however, what size can my 20hp 4wd tractor pull? Also I did find a source for deep tillers from Europe. They are called Spaders and a company called Imants sells them. Their WEB site is www.imants.com. bill
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962
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1999-12-12 10961
rm, now you've got me wondering about the tillers. I have a Bush Hog RTS40 and it only tills 6-7" deep. But you talk about your shoes riding well below surface level? The only thing I can think of is that you probably have a lot softer, more porous soil than I. A local soil engineer called mine "Wilson clay loam". It's black dirt that's hard as a rock when dry and will stick to your shoes and build up like you wouldn't believe when it's wet. So in the last 4 years, for an 8,500 square foot garden plot, I've tilled in 3 dump truck loads of wood chips and 2 dump truck loads of cow manure, plus a lot of leaves, a bale of straw, rabbit manure, etc. I have a really nice texture now, and while I've never tried to be a certified organic gardener, I use no chemicals of any kind on the vegetable garden. I have wondered whether the tiller would go deeper and/or whether it would damage anything if I just took the skid shoes completely off. ....
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| RCH
Join Date: Posts: 1
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1999-12-13 10970
The Imant deep tiller was very interesting-I was unaware of such a machine for compact tractors.Is there any price information ?
One caveat;ROCKS.In Europe many farms have been picking rocks for centuries or horticulture beds are built up so that rocks are eliminated. Here in Central Wisc. the farmer that rents my bigger fields had a dutch machine by LELY that had 2 bars 12 ft long with 12 inch long prongs every 10 inches that stuck into the ground.The PTO oscilated the 2 bars in opposite directions [perpindicular to the direction of travel]. Rocks basicly destoyed it. It would sweep the rocks in front of it and deposit them where ever you lifted it up for handy picking. The right sized rock[s] however would raise hell. ....
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| rm
Join Date: Posts: 1
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1999-12-13 10983
Bird, I should have stated better how it is I'm able to achieve that depth with the tiller. My plot is small (under 1000 sq. ft.). It generally takes several passes through in each direction before it begins working that deep. I try to choose favorable soil conditions when I till. For me that means hard red clay that dries like rocks. After a soaking rain I wait a few days then go check the clods. When it's just right they break up like cake. Too wet and it's like you describe yours. In a few more days they will be like rocks again. I till slow as my HST will go. (I'm talking crawlin' here). The machine and tractor never complain, just me. It's like Christmas dinner, trying to get everything to come together and work on time. There lies the rub ;-) ....
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962
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1999-12-13 10993
rm, sounds like you soil is a lot like mine, all right, except for color. And some folks (not the fair minded ones of course) have said I'm not the most patient fellow in the world; sometimes I try to go a little too fast on some jobs, and of course, the slower you go the better job the tiller does. ....
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962
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1999-12-13 10995
And darned if I didn't even type too fast and leave an "r" out. ....
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| Larry
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 0 St.Davids
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1999-12-14 11037
Here in Michigan I am blessed with great soil. I have two small gardens and have learned a few things about tilling over the years. If you can grab a handful of soil and it doesn't crumble when you release, it is too wet to till. If you can't grab a handful of soil becuse it is too hard it is too dry to till. Tilling deeper than 4 to 6 inches will cause your sweet corn and other plants to assume a horizontal position during the forthcomming July storm. Plants in the horizontal position do not do well. I too put lots of organic material on the gardens but you do not have to till it below the topsoil which is only 4 to 6 inches deep in Michigan. I suspect that the plants use the topsoil for nutrients and the lower soil for root stability. ....
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| Doug in W. PA
Join Date: Posts: 1
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1999-12-15 11070
Bill,
I have found that one of the best $100 I ever spent has been on a middle buster pplow. I have used it to trench for laying cable and drain pipe and it really works well tilling up the garden. I use the plow and then smooth it out with the front loader then use the Troy Built just for selective cultivating durning the growing season. Good luck, Doug ....
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| bill
Join Date: Posts: 1
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1999-12-15 11083
Larry, thanks for your input. Here in MS in many areas the soil below about 6" to 12" deep can be high in clay content and hard. The reason for breaking up the soil deeper is to promote water drainage and plant root penetration. Most soil and plant science experts recommend chisel plowing or subsoiling for enhanced plant growth,some even go as deep as 18". ....
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| Larry
Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 0 St.Davids
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1999-12-19 11295
Bill, thanks for patiently explaining the soil differences. I would now guess that tillage depth depends on local weather and type of soil. Crop management even on the tiny scale that I engage in is a complicated process. I can't imagine how much knowledge full time crop farmers must have. Best of luck with your tilling. ....
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| mark
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 188 Virginia
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2002-09-05 42051
A 20hp 4wd tractor will pull a one bottom plow easy and depending on you soil maybe a two bottom but it's not likely ....
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| MRETHICS
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 190 Star City, Indiana
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2002-09-05 42052
Deep tillage is a beautifull thing, but there are some things about the subject that need to be addressed.
If compaction is the purpose of the deep tilling, then the following facts must be brought into the open.
Most tillers will only go about 6" to 7" deep which has already been stated.
There will be a layer about .5" thick directly below the depth of the tiller tines thatwill be compacted. This compacted layer is called "Plowpan" or "Hardpan. High Soil Moisture levels at the depth of the tillage will make this plowpan even harder. So good dry soil is crucial. If the soil at that depth is too wet, The layer will be even harder than if you had done nothing.
The best way to loosen things up a bit, is to use the sub-soiler/middlebuster, AFTER you have tilled, to break up the plowpan. Useing it before will make the tiller pull easier, but the end result will not be as good as useing if after the tiller.
I have a tiller ane use it often, in my area of N.W. Indiana, we have rocks. In order to limit the damage to the tiller, I have set my 3pt lower draft arms pins in the setting Deere has put there to allow them to float upward when the tines encounter rocks. the Tiller should be set so the tines rotate forward, this will help it jump the stones.
Some of the smaller stones will be pulled to the top of the ground for retrieval. The larger ones can be located by finding the dip in the ground the tiller leaves when it jumps over buried stones.
Be carefull and check for underground cables, field tile, gas lines, electric, and phone wires. Tillage that goes deeper tha 12" has been known to damage these, especially if they were put in privately. This happens every spring in my area at least once. It seems the old farmers would run a copper L.P. Line or phone line to an outbuilding and since they were going threw an area that they never tilled, they didn't bury it too deep if it was not a waterline. Then, someone purchases the property some 25 yrs later and guess what they find in the garden?
I know the original post is mre than 2 yrs old, but maybe someone will read this and learn a little something. Possibly even ad to it. ....
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