A Second HST Question re HST reliability vs gear 
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 09-08-1999, 00:00 Post: 7746
Pete R



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 A Second HST Question re HST reliability vs gear

First, thanks to all those that answered my first question and thanks to dsg and PaulB for the offer to try their equipment out. I live in Mass and can't take the time to travel that far. (I do have relatives in Pompey/Jamesville (Gates Road?) south of Syracuse and they have a bit of land. My brother-in-law even has his own bull dozer. I'm jealous.)Anyway, this is a question about HST reliability. I'm convinced after hearing all of the people on this board and trying one machine myself that HST is the way to go. However, what is the repair history of these HST units? It "feels" like it would be subject to more problems than gear drive, but since I don't know how they work, maybe not. Do people rebuild HST transmissions? What parts actually wear? Are they less rugged? (e.g. you don't see them on big heavy equipment, but for compacts they are good enough?)thanks again for this great discussion board.Pete ReinhardHolliston, MA






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 09-08-1999, 00:00 Post: 7769
Jason MacKenzie



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 A Second HST Question re HST reliability vs gear

Pete,12 years with my JD 855 absolutly no problems with it. I didn't do light pussy mans work with that machine either. That Machine really worked Hard! Not a hint of Hydro problems whatsoever! I just traded it in April, got $13,000 for it, towards a trade in on my JD 4200.. That is only a $3,000 less than what I paid for it in 1987! Can you believe that? Awesome deal! Believe me, you have nothing to worry about buying Hydro! If you did at least one of us would have been an unhappy Hydro Owner, and told you about it.. But that is not the Case, everybody posted to you how great HYDRO is.. So don't lose sleep over it, and just get a Hydro.. TRUST US!!






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 09-08-1999, 00:00 Post: 7771
Stanley



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 A Second HST Question re HST reliability vs gear

Had my Kubota 8 plus years now. Use the hydro hard sometimes but never abused it. What I mean is that I don't go forward and then slam the reverse pedal, I wait til it comes to an almost stop then back up. I've used my B1550 (17 hp) to dig, push snow, pull downed trees, etc. and NEVER had a problem. I maintain the equipment as best as I can using synthetic oils. I'll probably hear crap about this but I'll never go back to a gear tractor. I agree with Jason. Good luck!






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 09-09-1999, 00:00 Post: 7778
PaulB



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 A Second HST Question re HST reliability vs gear

Pete - I could throw a rock from my house to Gates Road in Pompey - small world. One thing the salesman told me when I was comparing gear vs hydro was that if you do a lot of back and forth ( ie, almost anything except mowing ) you will sooner or later burn out the clutch on the gear drive model. Estimated repair cost ( from both the Kubota dealer and the Cub cadet dealer ) was $1,500. That is more than the cost difference to go with hydro to begin with.Lso, because the hydro acts an a very effective brake ( I never touch my brakes in daily use, only if I need a parking brake ) you should avoid brake rebuilds, which I have no idea if that is expensive or not. Just another reason to go hydro.PaulB






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 09-09-1999, 00:00 Post: 7779
Brent



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 A Second HST Question re HST reliability vs gear

It sounds like the salesman was trying to sell a hydro tractor. If you think about what he, using the clutch to go from forward to reverse. The is little difference between the clutch in a tractor and the clutch in an automobile. If what he said were true we would be rebuilding the clutches in our manual trans autos constantly. I have worked on a number of grey market tractors that are 15+ years old and a worn out clutch is rare. You will have one that is stuck occasionally from sitting for a long time, but not worn out. I had a JD 855 with a loader and as you know the 855 is a hydro tractor. I was very disapointed with the hydro/loader combination. When you had the pedal down and were working the loader controller it would have a tendancy to bog the engine down. I thought it was just my tractor until I talked to a salesman at a New Holland dealer and he told me he preferred a gear tractor to a hydro model when used with a loader. A shuttle shift or powershift in the case of some of the Yanmars is the way to go. You have the ease and convience of hydro with the power of a gear tractor.






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 09-09-1999, 00:00 Post: 7784
mike



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 A Second HST Question re HST reliability vs gear

I agree brent, I have never seen worn out clutchs on these compacts. The problems just does'nt appear very often like a car, etc. Like you said sticking clutches I have seen, mainly two stage type not allowing the pto to engage. But other than that clutches ARE extremely reliable and should give thousands of hours with proper maintenance.






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 09-09-1999, 00:00 Post: 7785
Jason MacKenzie



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 A Second HST Question re HST reliability vs gear

Pete,I wouldn't let the guy with the bad 855 comment scare you off from Hydro. Like I said, I was very very happy with my 855, and I have never had a loader bog down while using Hydro.. Mine worked perfectly.. and Loader had 100% power while using the Hydro.. So take that comment with a grain of salt.. I'm sure it is a very rare condition. And My New 4200, has plenty of Hydro Power, Great Machine, and the steering now has its own Hydro Pump, so no power gets robbed while steering and using Hydro






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 09-09-1999, 00:00 Post: 7786
Mike S.



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 A Second HST Question re HST reliability vs gear

While there appears to be a issue with a couple of tractors mentioned, my 955 worked great and my new 4400 HST is also great--it NEVER even slows the engine down when using the loader. In the last few weeks I have moved about 100 tons of materials with the loader and never once had the engine even slow down. A hydro trans. with a loader is much easier to use than a continual shifting of clutching and shifting gears (or even using a powershift and shuttleshift). With my 955, I could mow around objects quicker (lots of trees in my yard) and move much more snow more quickly than the grounds crews where I work could with larger gear drive tractors. I vote for hydro--my new 4400 is my fourth hydro. Long ago I made the mistake of first owning a Kubota hydro and then went to a Yanmar without a hyro and kept it for a year before going back to another hydro. I departed from the Yanmar only because I hated using it since I was spoiled by the previous tractor with its hydro trans. This is similar to a car--if I were to drive over long distances in the country and do little city driving, I would probably opt for a standard trans.; but living near Kansas City and being caught in stop and go traffic jams, I wouldn't consider the hassle of the continual clutching and declutching in such traffic.






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 09-09-1999, 00:00 Post: 7791
Brent



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 A Second HST Question re HST reliability vs gear

I am not saying that hydros are terrible and that there is something inherently wrong with all of them. I am just saying it dependson your application. In my oh so humble opinion hydro robs a tractor of horsepower. Think about this. If you go and shop for lawnmowers you will notice that if you look at a hydro model beside a gear/belt version that even though they are the same model, size, weight and cutting width, that the hydro will have a higher horsepower engine than the regular trans model. That is because it takes more horses(not a lot) to run that hydro trans. I noticed with my 855 that it had the same or nearly the same displacement as one of the X70 series tractors, but less hp. I loved my 855 when mowing or using a landscape box, but when it came to hard loader work and I had my foot to the pedal and was working that joystick to fill that bucket, it was not uncommon to kill the engine. I sold it and went back to a Hinomoto 2304(MF1030) with loader. Even though it was rated at only 1.1hp more the difference was remarkable. Now I have a Yanmar 2620D. After getting it I am amazed that John Deere never imported this version of Yanmar to sell under the green paint. You clutch it to select the range and then you select the gear you want by a lever on the dashboard and that lever doesn't require you to clutch. You can clutch it to ease into or out gear but the nice part is the convienence of it. I agree hydros are nice and maybe I was trying to get to much out of mine. I sell the grey markets and have people inquire about loaders alot. I have talked to people who have loaders on 16-17 hp tractors and talk about how much they do. It is all relative. What I consider alot may not be much to the next guy and vice versa. I didn't mean to start a hydro vs gear war, we all have our favorites.






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 09-09-1999, 00:00 Post: 7792
MichaelSnyder

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 A Second HST Question re HST reliability vs gear

Time & time again I hear people talking about a hydro "bogging". 1 HP= the ability to raise 33,000lbs,1 foot in 1 minute. Regardless of how any motor transfers its available HP, as speed of the work increases, more torque is required to perform that task. Nothing new there. Unfortunately, people often forget or don't realize infinitely variable speed also means infinitely variable torque, based upon the "pump's" ability to create fluid volume and pressure...Simple Physics..Gears transfer an engines torque at the speed of theselected gear ratios & the RPMs in which the engine is turning. Hydro's operate a little different, in that they use a "fluid pump". Therefore fluid volume and flow is what translates into torque. The transfer losses from fluid energy to rotation of a shaft is one reason why hydro's are HP rated slightly less than an equal tractor with gears. All of that said, hydro's NEED to be run at higher RPMs to create sufficient fluid pressure. Anyone who irrigates crops knows that without pressure, your sprinkler heads are useless. Regardless of the motors HP, Pumps don't create pressure at idle. My advise to you: If your the kind of guy who just can't figure out why a hydro bogs, get a gear tranny. If you are able to realize a hydro needs fluid volume & flow (RPMs) to run the pump, and don't feel like getting the one arm & leg workout, get a hydro.






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