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 04-19-1999, 00:00 Post: 3057
Gary



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 Pole Building

Putting up a new pole building and I'm concerned about frost and red clay with the poles being pushed out of the ground from the cold winters in Northern Minnesota. Has anyone delt with this problem and or have any solutions for it. They told me they put the poles 4 1/2 feet in the ground is all. Thanks, Gary






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 04-19-1999, 00:00 Post: 3061
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Here in New York they recomend putting the posts 4 feet in the ground and I havenever heard of anyone ever having a heaving problem with any of their buildingsconsidering your location is slightly different then here, upstate I should add,is more than likely the reason for the additional 1/2 of a foot.............frommy understanding it is very seldom that frost goes below the three foot mark andfrost has to get under the posts, and under far enough to heave all of the weightI would ask around of local contractors and if that is the going depth than Iwould think that you'd be OKRich






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 04-19-1999, 00:00 Post: 3065
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 Pole Building

Find out what the average frost depth is and add a 1 or so to it. The main thing is to be below the frost depth, anything close to it can move, keep in mind heavily travel area or areas without snow will get deeper frost than is normally found. If every one in your area is going 4.5 feet than I would think that that should be considered a minimum depth.Good Luck






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 04-19-1999, 00:00 Post: 3073
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 Pole Building

Iv'e also heard that some people don't fill the whole hole with cement. Just a few bags in the bottom of the hole. That way the earth on top slides on the post but cement acts like an anchor under the heaving earth.






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 04-19-1999, 00:00 Post: 3075
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 Pole Building

Talk to your local building department. They will have a code for minimum depthof a foundation which falls below the frost line. They will tell you what it is foryour area. SE Michigan is 42"!






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 04-19-1999, 00:00 Post: 3082
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 Pole Building

Get below the frost line by a foot or so. Fill the bottom with concretestaying below the frost line. For additional belt and suspenders you can put a LIGHTweight split PVC sleeve around the pole. This sleeve rests on top of the concrete and either slides itself or allows the dirt a lower friction surfaceto slide against when the earth heaves. The PVC must be light enough weight tobe firmly compressed against the pole by earth pressure. Additionally you MUSTkeep moisture away from the poles. Use long overhangs and french drains. Roger L






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 04-20-1999, 00:00 Post: 3117
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 Pole Building

I have heard that frost will grab the poles on the sides and pinch them so tight that it will raise them that way just like popping pimple. I guess the pvc around the pole or maybe even plastic will work so the clay will not be able to grab on to them. Thanks






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 04-20-1999, 00:00 Post: 3130
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Roger,I've never done pole stuctures before, but am curious. When you mentioned putting concrete in the bottom of the hole, was this after the pole was placed? The reason I'm asking is that while concrete makes for excellent foundation and footer material, it has a nasty habit of absorbing moisture and holding against the wood. I've seen shallow set posts rot out in the concrete, but be OK above the concrete (wood dries out). 'Just curious as to what the practice is.Also, many types of clays expand when wet and they typically have poor load bearing capacity. A concrete footing that has a larger surface area than the poles might be called for. Otherwise the pole could sink further into the ground when the clay is wet. I don't believe the pole has to be secured, but some form of attachment might be a good idea to prevent the clay from expanding (either due to frost or water) and pushing the pole up. If the pole is attached, the footer would act as an anchor, as well as a load distributor. Another consideration is to backfill around the pole with gravel (no fines!). This will provide for drainage around the pole, allowing it to dry out and have enough "give" to prevent the expanded clay to get a grip on the pole.Lee






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 04-21-1999, 00:00 Post: 3188
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 Pole Building

I had a pole building constructed here in Wisconsin about 10 years ago. I too have clay. They drilled the holes down below the frost depth and then placed concrete pads in the bottom of the holes. The pads they used were pre-cast concrete pads and they just placed them in the bottom of the hole before setting the poles. No problems so far.






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 04-22-1999, 00:00 Post: 3197
Ed C in Vt



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 Pole Building

Here in Vt we also get a little frost from time to time. My father-in-law taught me a trick years ago about putting poles in the ground that I've used many time with success. His trick was to put a pipe around the post, with the bottom of the pipe at the same level as the bottom of the post (below frostlevel), and the top of the pipe a few inches above ground level. The frost will grab a hold of and move the pipe up and down, but the post never moves.A simple time proven solution...






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