TC29 vs TC25 
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 03-16-1999, 00:00 Post: 1761




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 TC29 vs TC25

I've been comparing specs on the TC25 and TC29TC25 25hp @2600rpm with an 81.2cu.in. engineTC29 29hp @2800rpm with an 81.2cu.in. engineI get the impression that the TC29 is a ripoff.It looks like all they did is take the same engine and rate it at 200 rpm faster. HP = torque x rpm/some constant. Faster rpm equals more hp for the same engine.If thats the case, your getting screwed several hundred dollars buying the same tractor with a different decal.Any opinions?






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 03-16-1999, 00:00 Post: 1765
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 TC29 vs TC25

I have been looking at the TC**D and have been trying to decide which engine I should be going for. It look as thought the 29 HP is just more RPMs. What is different with the 33HP engine. Is there some one that can comment on 25 HP engine and how it performs as compared to the 33 HP engine. Would like to use this machine with a 72" finishing mower and not have it bog down too much when the grass is heavy. How is the noise on the two tractors? Which is the quieter engine?






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 03-16-1999, 00:00 Post: 1767
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 TC29 vs TC25

I see what you are saying, however, go ahead and calculate torque.Torque of the 25 @2600 rpm is 50.5. Torque of the 29@2800rpm is 54.4. Generally, in these diesels, torque falls off past 1500 rpm or so. Therefore if you ran the 25hp engine 200 rpm faster torque should decrease, but it does not, therefore something must be different. I would guess slightly bigger injectors to add more fuel but I'm no engineer, just an optometrist. We need an engineer to help us out.






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 03-17-1999, 00:00 Post: 1775




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Since the engines are the same displacement, they achieve the higher horsepower by using a higher compression ratio for the TC29. Remember, for a diesel engine only air is compressed, not the fuel-air mix as for a gasoline engine. So, the more you compress the air, the greater the combustion, the more power generated, and so on...






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 03-17-1999, 00:00 Post: 1777
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 TC29 vs TC25

Thanks for the info rick.






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 03-17-1999, 00:00 Post: 1792




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So Mason's point is a valid one. The same engine, maybe they mill a little off the head to increase the compression, and or add a little extra fuel, and charge several hundred dollars for what should cost almost nothing. Sounds like a ripoff.






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 03-18-1999, 00:00 Post: 1800
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 TC29 vs TC25

Calling it a ripoff is not fair nor accurate. Getting more horse power from an engine will almost always cause more stress on most of the working parts of the engine and will, in many cases require closer tolerances. That all costs money. Additionally, the chances of failure also increase thus requiring more warranty service. They may expect higher failure of certain bearings in the warranty period than at the lower horsepower and thus charge more. Charging more for more horsepower for the same basic engine is a standard practice with virtually all engine manufacturers even when all it takes (as in older Cummins) is changing a button in an injector pump because of the greater financial exposure of the manufacturer and the greater benefit to the consumer. Ease off on the ripoff accusations until you know what you're talking about.






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 03-18-1999, 00:00 Post: 1804




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Thanks for all the responses. Ok, at least there is more than a decal change and higher RPM involved. But what I read into what you said Fred, is that I pay more for a less reliable engine. Yes, I get my monies worth for the more hp, but at the cost of less reliablity.






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 03-18-1999, 00:00 Post: 1816




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I would not worry much about the reliability of one machine over the other. The engine is designed for the higher horsepower rating and then derated to the lower level. It is done this way to save money in manufacturing and inventory. I work for an engine maker (not tractors) and this is how it is done. There is nothing wrong with this comonality of design. The claim that NH has several hundred dollars worth of exposure due to a less reliable machine is just plain silly. NH saves lots of money with this method. The reliability will be virtually the same for both machines during the warentee period. You might see some differences as the machine starts to get old, but you are paying for parts then not NH. There is no question NH will be making almost all the difference in cost between these machines as extra profit. That is a ripoff to the buyer in my book. These machines are priced by what the market will bear not what it costs to make and warentee them. That is free enterprise, and there is nothing wrong with it.






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 03-19-1999, 00:00 Post: 1835




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Thanks again for the insite Fred. One more question. You said "The engine is designed for the higher horsepower rating and then derated to the lower level." Just so I understand, are you saying that for example, NH would design the engine for the 29 horse rating (rods, cylinder walls, etc) and then use the same block for 25 horse. So it's not that the 29 horse is a ripoff, it's more that the 25 horse benefits from longer term reliability? Yes?






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