Go BottomJD 4300 vs Cub Cadet 7305
 | Jim in Pa
Join Date: Posts: 1 
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2000-01-28 12309
I'm a novice to these boards, but I've been reading this one for a month of so. After reading alot and test drives of Kubota, NH, JD and Cub, I'm down to deciding between the JD 4300HST (32 hp) and the Cub Cadet 7305 (HST 30 hp). I would outfit both with a 72" midmount mower and a loader with a 60" bucket. I'm struggling with which is the best combination. Read every thing here and elsewhere and test drove both.The JD 4300 has cruise, separate HST pedals and opposing brakes to the HST controls. I'd upgrade to a 430 loader with HD bucket which would give me a much greater lift capacity then the Cub. Also the JD appear to hold their value better than the Cub. The JD quick attach set-up also appears better in terms of ease of use. On the other hand, the JD has a composite fender body, access to the filters are covered and is a thousand dollars more than the Cub even after I try to compare apples to apples using a 420 loader and giving some dollars toward the 2 HP. Yanmar engine is reliable and I've got a good dealer fairly close. Size and weight is also close to the Cub.The Cub is just as heavy as the JD but has metal fenders and appears to be a bit stronger in the body. Doesn't have some of the JD ergonomics, but the Cub appears to be built to last. Access to maintenance items is easier and tire size is comparable to the JD. Doesn't have a full walk through platform and uses a treadle design for the HST. Cub Loader (which I understand is made by Woods) is a quick take off but only can lift or bucket tilt separately, not simulaneously like the JD. I also have a great dealer near to me.Exclusive of the loader capacity, can anybody help me with the difference in price to value? I've saved for this tractor forever, and I'll keep it forever. I want to make the best decision. I'm not influenced by color, just quality.
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| Terry
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2000-01-29 12315
Jim I own a 4400 with 72in belly mower and 420 loader, I could not compare the two because I no nothing about the Cub but I would check the resale vaule, the deere will more than likely be more, as far as lift on my loader I've had the bucket full of, dirt, stone and concrete and never had any problem moving any of this material. The 72in belly mower cuts my lawn as well as any riding mower would. Of course to me service and parts are the biggest factor in buying any kind of machine, my dealer is always willing to do any thing he can for me, great service, keeps me coming back. I hope this help you some in your quest for your tractor. ....
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| Jim in Pa
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-01-29 12320
Thanks for your input. Why did you go with the 4400 vs. the 4300? Tractors are identical except for the 3 hp. Also do you get a scalping problem with a 72" mower in rougher terrain? ....
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| Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2000-01-29 12328
It looks like you have to choose between two excellent tractors, Jim. Not a bad situation to be in at all. I haven't owned either of these tractors, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But I have owned a number of other tractors and have driven both of these, so I'll mention some of the things which are important to me.
First of all is the ease of getting on/off the tractor. If you are like most of us you will be jumping on and off of it much more than you think when you are working. Second is how does it ride over bumps and rough ground? A bouncy tractor is tiresome. Tires, tire pressure, and implements can change the ride a lot, too. As for the 420/430 loader, my specs show the 430 can lift about 63 lbs more than the 420....a difference so small as to be no difference at all. The 420 does dump about 5" farther forward. This is probably where the difference in lift ability arises and I'd find the reach fractionally more useful than the extra 60 pounds. On the subject of loaders, I can't imagine that the Cub Cadet won't raise the bucket and tilt it at the same time. Loaders have been able to do this for 50 years. If you are only looking at the difference between the single joystick and the dual lever types of loader valves, then you should be aware that they are one and the same valve - just ifferent levers. The single joystick won't do anything that the dual levers cannot accomplish. It just takes a little (very little) practice. Most valves can accept either lever system. I currently have one of each and am leaning toward the dual lever type. As for the quick detachable feature I rarely use this. More important than anything else about the loader is how visibility. How well can you see what the bucket is doing when it is all the say down and you are sitting in the seat?? No tractor is good at this. Some are better than others. I cannot imagine wanting a walk-thru operator's platform, but I'd sure like to have better steps and more space for quickly getting on/off of the tractor.
Other things that I think are important are a front PTO, extra independent hydraulic outlets, telescoping lift arms, damped suspension on the seat, and an independent power steering pump. As for the fenders, one of mine has fenders strong enough to stand on and I do this a lot when trimming trees and working on the side of the house or barn. Another one does not; so I stand on the tire.
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| Terry
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2000-01-30 12349
Jim I haven't had any problem with scaping, my lawn does have some bumps in it. I all so order the mower with the mulching kit, no clumps of grass to rake. As for the reason I ordered the 4400 vs 4300 was I wanted MFWD, the 4400 come this way, the 4300 has to be order with it, not much different in price. I all so figured the extra HP couldn't hurt, the more the merry. ....
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| Jeff Pizzi
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2000-01-31 12407
Terry - One thing that you mentioned is, in my opinion, significant, and thats the peddle arrangement of the HST. I have a JD 755 w/ the side by side peddelss and have test driven a Kubota with the treddle (sp). Believe me, if your doing a lot of back and forth loader work, it's much less tiring to swing your foot a couple of inchs back and forth than it is to lift your foot, move it back... You get my point. Just my opinion. Keep in mind I only have 20 hours on my tractor and have no other experienc. ....
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| Terry
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-02-01 12416
Jim I did own A JD 445 with the same peddle arangement as your tractor. The only problem I had is when going to reverse is I would mash the peddle to quick spin the tires, not that big of a ploblem with a small tractor, only about 850lbs. This would be a lot different on my 4400 witch is about 3000lbs and a lot more powerfull. Having to move my foot back a forth makes me almost bring the tractor to complete stop, no lawn damage. Also when using any atachment on the 3 point and having to go in reverse it was tiresome on the back of my leg on the 445 , not so with the two side by side peddles. I have used many tractors over the years mostly shift and I belive hyd is the best IMHO. ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York 
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2000-02-01 12425
There is a new way to rate loaders in the industry thaks to deere, at the loader pins don't forget to check that. The loader valve on a cub cadet loader is supposed to lift and tilt at the same time. Problem with a deere loader if you back fill to much they are pulling out of front frame. ....
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| MichaelSnyder
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2000-02-01 12427
Jim,
I'd be willing to bet JD uses composite fenders for durability and longevity reasons, not cost savings. Different industry, but our company is in the process of converting existing sheetmetal components to plastic. Other than the obvious hurdles this creates, the costs associated with molded plastics are actually quite a bit higher. Everyone things plastic is dirt cheap because its used in everything. Problem is, we forget that a plastic soda mold probably makes about 500 million bottles a year..or more, and does so very..very quickly. Doubtful JD is planning to sell that many tractors in the next few years. Plastic doesn't rust, and can accept minor bumps and scrapes without dents and dings...Of which usually turns to rust on metal. The weight differential is minimal, and hardly applies in this case. I'll take a plastic hood/fender any day over sheetmetal. Next, Assuming the 4300 is like my 4100, the side and front covers (around the engine) easily come off the JD unit in about 15-30 seconds, without tools. Thus Completely exposing the "entire" engine bay of the unit. And lastly, Like it or not..Green paint has the advantage in resale.
Like most things I post, this is OMO. ....
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| Jim in Pa
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-02-05 12543
After reading the above threads, I took another test drive of both the Cub and JD. I'm still hung up on the Cub have a steel hood, side panels, platform and fenders compared to the JD composite. Could those of you who own the 4000 series comment on the durability and wear of this new composite. I know the JD has a tubular frame under the platform, but I have to imagine that I'll step up to the platform, catch my boot and rip the edge off the composite. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks. ....
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| Ben Stevens
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2000-02-06 12556
Jim:
I have a showroom new August 1999(27.5 hours) John Deere 4300 with hydrostatic transmision,72" mid mount mower, liquid filled turf tires, 430 front end loader and 47 back hoe. The tractor is at John Deere dealership in Waynesboro, PA. It is covered by warranty. Will sell at attractive price.
If interested let me know.
Thanks
beju1 ....
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| Terry
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-02-07 12567
Jim recently had about a 6in / 10ft log fall out of a tree on my JD4400 in the ice storm in S.C.,it hit right across the hood. Besides nearly having a heartatack it only scratched the surface where it hit. A little buffing compound and it was good as new, a steel part would have been dented. I like the composite parts they seem to be more durable vs steel. I have also used the fenders to stand on to trim limbs from trees, and haven't broken one yet. I to was a little worried about plastic vs steel, not any more. Hope this may help you in your decision and you get what you want. ....
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| Randy Eckard
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2000-02-07 12568
The comment about catching your boot on the platform and braking it is unfounded. The platform is made from at least 3/16 formed plate steel where you mount the tractor.
Randy ....
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| MichaelSnyder
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2000-02-07 12576
Jim,
Your not a 375lbs body builder are you?? If your worried that you are "capable" of ripping a chunck of Composite with your foot, You'd better stay away from sheet metal...You'll be replacing the fender after that episode..
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962 
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2000-02-07 12589
Jim, Roger's comment about the Cub bucket not raising and tilting at the same time led me to enter my comments. I have a Kubota B2710 with an LA401 loader and it WILL NOT raise and roll back simultaneously (joystick controls), and the manual, as well as the sticker on the loader, clearly state that it will not. I'll have to admit this surprised me, since my old B7100 would do both. However, that has not been a problem for me.
Before I bought the B7100 in 1995, I seriously considered a Cub Cadet because I had a Cub Cadet riding mower (lawn tractor) and it was a dandy. My Kubota dealer is also a Cub Cadet dealer. I decided on the Kubota for two reasons: (1) it felt more comfortable to me (might be different for a person of a different size), and (2) the dealer said the Cub Cadet price was a little higher, but the resale value was a little lower (you said you intend to keep it, so resale shouldn't be a big issue).
As Roger said, you're trying to decide between two good machines. I'd say, "Buy the one that FEELS best to YOU." ....
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| Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2000-02-07 12599
Bird, that's really weird about the loader control. I'm surprised. And wonder if the 2710 is an open or closed hydraulic system...or if this is a case of one step forward and two back? ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2000-02-08 12608
Bird, if you have the kubota loader you should have the ability to raise and dump at the same time. Someone one a earlier post said there cadet didn't but if it is the cadet loader that to should be a multi function valve. The only place I see the non-dual function valves used is on some of the after market loaders. ....
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962
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2000-02-08 12609
Roger, I'm certainly no hydraulics expert; what do you mean by "open" or "closed" system? ....
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962
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2000-02-08 12610
Art, yes, you can raise and dump simultaneously, lower and dump OR roll back the bucket at the same time. In other words, with the joystick, as you probably know, you can push or pull it forward, backward, right, left, or to the four corners; upper/right, upper/left, lower/right, and lower/left. The manual, and the placard on the tractor, have a big "X" on the lower/left corner and I've found when I go into a pile of dirt, nothing moves if I pull the joystick to the lower/left corner. However, I am just now re-checking the manual, and it has a "NOTE" saying the position marked by a "cross is not recommended for scooping because of insufficient lift force." So, maybe it WILL roll back and lift simultaneously with an empty bucket, but it will not even pick up a very light load of loose material. But, of course, even with a big pile of heavy clay, I can drive into it slowly while rolling the bucket back ( moving the joystick left without pulling back and trying to raise the bucket), then when it's rolled back far enough, center the joystick and pull back to raise the bucket, and it'll easily pick up a full, heaped bucket. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2000-02-08 12615
Bird, don't mean to cut in on Roger but open center runs at full gallons per minute and nearly 0 presure, closed center is at full presure and nearly 0 gallons per minute. The latest out is called presure flow compensated or pfc this runs at near 0 on both presure and gallons per minute, this uses the least horsepower of all. This system also on the new Case-IH tractors only uses whats called for in both presure and gallons so less horse power is lost running the system. The valves on your tractor when both are open on your loader as when trying to do two functions at once send the oil to the easiest place not always where you need it. Oil like electricty takes the path of least resistance. ....
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962
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2000-02-08 12637
Art, I'm guessing (and that's about all) that I have an "open" system. It's my understanding that it's an open center valve with "power beyond" and someday I'm going to get another valve, hoses, etc. and replace the existing top link on the three point with a hydraulic top link. ....
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| Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2000-02-08 12647
Not cutting in at all, Art. And I agree with your explanation. Bird probably has an open center type where the fluid just circulates freely from the pump then through the valve body and back to the reservoir - at a high flow rate - until some valve is moved to interrupt the flow. Then a portion of the flow develops pressure instead of velocity and that portion pushes on the cylinder. But I am trying to from figure out why wouldn't this enable the valve to work all cylinders at the same time. And the best that I can come up with is that the flow rate is too low to do so. Either that or there is some new type of open center valve out there that I have not come across. But I cannot think of any advantage to that. Another puzzle. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2000-02-09 12652
You are really putting me to work,now your loader tip system has a presure relief so it will only tip back x amount of load and your lift relief of coarse normally is higher, the oil will go thru the relief on the tip system the path of least resistance. That is why you actually can't lift as much while working the two systems. Bird you can add the extra valve and have no trouble doing it. You should make sure the additional hydralic eqiupment is properly sized to your tractors system. ....
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962
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2000-02-09 12663
Art, I'm pretty sure the hydraulics are properly matched to the tractor, since it's a B2710 Kubota with Kubota's own LA401 loader, as Kubota recommends. It certainly struck me as being odd when I saw that big "X" or "cross" and found it has no power at all if you pull down and left at the same time; however, when you're accustomed to using it (as the manual instructs), it works great and has plenty of power. Even with liquid filled rear tires, and my 200# on the seat, it'll pick up the back wheels of the tractor, and/or flatten the front tires, if you don't have an implement on the back for a counterweight, so I'm not planning to change anything. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2000-02-10 12671
Bird, didn't mean to say your equipment is lacking. It's the nature of this style valve to act that way. There really is nothing that can be done without changing the relief valve settings and I don't recomend that to anyone. Kubota makes there own loaders and they know what are safe limits for the longevity of there tractors. ....
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| theo
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-02-12 12742
Gentlemen, I have been reading your responses and I am kind of taken aback
by some of your comments.
1.A valve that provides the functions you are referring to has what is called a
regenerative function.
2.All the tractors y'll refer to are open center systems.
3.Lift capacities are manufactures safe ratings.
4.The tractor you want should have daul pumps.
5.It should lift a bucket full of dirt at idle to full height.
6.It should lift and still have power steering while lifting.
7.Check on parts availability.
8.Make sure a dealer will service your tractor after the sale.
9.resale value in this order. jd,ku,nh,cub.
10.Hit a deere hold with a ball bat. George Brett did.
....
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| Jack in IL
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2000-02-12 12747
Theo, Please explain what you mean by your point number 10. Thanks. ....
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| JeffM
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2000-02-13 12757
Jack, I'm guessing a typo. Should read: Hit a deere hood with a ball bat. George Brett did. My bet is that the bat bounces right off the composite (plastic) hood on the deere. I can't understand those who believe that a composite hood or fender is inferior to steel, and actually believe it means a "cheaper" machine. What are snowmobile and ATV fenders, cowlings, etc. made from? Not steel. A snowmobile or ATV body part takes a pounding from all sorts of abuse at all temperatures. I can live with paint and finish scratches, but when that scratch turns to rust I don't like it. ....
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