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Dying gator from radiator fan and lights

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schaackj
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8 Central Iowa
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2010-06-06          171364


Hello all. I'm a new user to tractor point, great information here, hopefully ya'll can help me with a problem.

I've got a 2006 diesel HPX 4x4 that I've had for a short period of time. Unit probably has a couple thousand hours on it, but can't be certain as hour meter was replaced. I'm having problems with the gator dying when the radiator fan kicks on to help cool the radiator. But, I can start the gator right back up like normal (while radiator fan is running) and the unit runs fine. The gator will also die (normally, but not always) when I turn on the lights mounted on my Mauser cab. Again, like the radiator, if I turn on the lights first then start the gator it runs just fine.

I don't have a manual or electrical schematics so I started looking for problems as best as possible with my multi-meter and trial & error. I'm not sure if the strong power draw from the radiator fan or cab lights is telling a fuel solenoid or engine 'brain' that I turned off the key or something else crazy like that. I took many voltage readings at the battery to verify it was strong (it is, even had it tested at auto parts store) and that the alternator was working (was showing 14.4V while idling). I did notice if I had the cab lights on while idling the battery would read mid 13's for voltage, but would go back up to 14.4 or so when I raised engine RPMs slightly.

I'll take any help I can get at this point, even if it is just an owner's manual or set of electrical schematics. Thank you in advance for any and all help!

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Dying gator from radiator fan and lights

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gatoraider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 540 Maryland
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2010-06-06          171382


The 12V supply for both the cooling fan and the fuel shut off solenoid come from F6 in the fuse panel thru the yellow wire out of the ignition switch. It is possible there is a voltage drop thru the switch that momentarily disables the voltage to the shut off solenoid when the fan relay is pulled. A good check would be to connect your voltage meter to the yellow wire coming out of the switch, run the motor until the fan comes on and check for a voltage drop. It would also work on the red wire to the shut off solenoid, which is the hold voltage that keeps the solenoid pulled. I don't know where the cab light light voltage comes from, you could check that out. ....

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Dying gator from radiator fan and lights

View my Photos
schaackj
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8 Central Iowa
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2010-06-07          171390


Thanks gatoraider. I looked briefly at my fuse block yesterday and noticed it didn't have a cover nor did it look like the fuse locations were labeled. Am I missing the fuse schedule somewhere? On a side note, I'm wondering how many fuses are incorrect size at the moment, know of any resources to help?

I'll try metering for voltage drop tonight. What do you think would cause a voltage drop strong enough to kill the fuel shut off solenoid? Or, if there is not a strong voltage drop, could the fuel shut off solenoid be going bad and prematurely turning off. I appreciate your response.


James ....

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Dying gator from radiator fan and lights

View my Photos
gatoraider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 540 Maryland
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2010-06-07          171396


There could be a bad connection in the ign. switch that would cause a drop. Also the plug in the back of the ign. switch could be dirty. It's always a good idea to check and clean all the ground connections. I'm sure there is a ground connection on the motor with 3 or 4 wires somewhere. The red wire in the fuel shut off harness plug is the hold voltage, so any momentary drop would probably let the solenoid go. Check and clean the connections in that plug. It could also be the solenoid going bad. Once you started it you could jump a hot wire to the red in the solenoid plug. That would assure hold voltage to the solenoid. If the fan comes on and the motor doesn't die you would know it wasn't the solenoid. It would be a voltage drop somewhere before that. You would have to take the jumper wire out to shut the motor off. ....

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Dying gator from radiator fan and lights

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schaackj
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8 Central Iowa
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2010-06-08          171416


Interesting round of trouble-shooting last night. First, I cleaned all related connections as you mentioned, most of which were very dirty (gator came from a seed mill, very dusty). Second, I started metering for voltages.

I first checked voltage to ground at the yellow ignition wire (motor running), getting in the high 13s to mid 14s depending on engine RPM. With the motor running and gator headlights on I dropped about 0.5v (gator did not die). My cab lights for some reason were not working last night so I couldn't perform the same voltage test. With motor running, no lights on, and radiator fan kicked on (gator dies) voltage was mid 12s and when I'd fire the gator back up while the radiator fan was still running I'd get low 13s to low 14s depending on engine RPM. Doesn't seem to be any significant voltage drops (my opinion) to cause hold voltage to release.

Next step, I jumpered the red fuel shut off solenoid wire (hold voltage) directly to the battery. I got the same result of engine dying when the radiator fan kicked on. Discussing with my brother we decided to supply hold voltage from a completely seperate power source to test voltage drop impact on the hold voltage wire of the solenoid. I hooked hold voltage jumper to my lawn tractor battery positive and jumpered the tractor battery to my gator frame. My tractor battery gave about 12.6v with tractor off and 14.6v with tractor on at full RPM. I fired up the gator and the tractor so the solenoid hold voltage wire would have been seeing about 14.6v and then I turned off the tractor key to immediately drop to mid 12s for voltage, gator stayed running. I left the jumper connected to the lawn tractor for hold voltage (tractor off, about 12.6v) and when the radiator fan turned on, the gator died.

Any input as to what the other two wires leading to the solenoid are? I'm assuming one is a negative and another a positive that provides voltage during the initial key switch to start. My brother described the 3 wire set-up as a latch circuit, been too long since I've had electronics class to remember that. At this point I'm somewhat making an assumption that the solenoid is just bad but I know they are expensive and don't really want to 'try' it as a fix. Knowing the ignition switch is in-line with all I guess I could try that first as a lower cost attempt in case there is a short inside of it. Just throwing darts at the moment. Any other ideas?

Thanks! ....

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Dying gator from radiator fan and lights

View my Photos
gatoraider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 540 Maryland
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2010-06-08          171417


Let's try jumpering the ground wire out of the solenoid plug to the battery. The 3 wires in there are: white/pull voltage, red/hold voltage and black/ground. The white wire is not involved after innitial pull. Did you clean the ground lugs on the motor? Right now I can't think of anything else electrical that would shut the motor off. ....

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Dying gator from radiator fan and lights

View my Photos
schaackj
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8 Central Iowa
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2010-06-08          171418


I did not track down the ground(s) last night, forgot about that attempt. I will find ground locations and clean them tonight. I'll also try jumpering the ground on the solenoid to the battery, see where that gets us.

Again, thank you for all the help.


James ....

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____________________________________________________________________________________
Dying gator from radiator fan and lights

View my Photos
gatoraider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 540 Maryland
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2010-06-08          171419


Another thought, there should be a ground from the motor to the frame, it's usually on the left rear of the motor on 6x4s, don't know about yours. Try a battery jumper cable from battery negative to a point on the frame. ....

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____________________________________________________________________________________
Dying gator from radiator fan and lights

View my Photos
schaackj
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8 Central Iowa
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2010-06-08          171439


Well gatoraider, we finally got the problem fixed. Do you recall a moment when you felt extremely happy you achieved but also a bit dumb-founded it was something so simple?

The a main ground wire bonding the gator frame, coming directly from the negative battery cable, was broken. I'd not recognized this issue in the past (obviously) and had no need to look for it. I was in the process of jumping the negative from the fuel solenoid valve to the battery when I noticed it plain as day.

I really appreciate all your help. So much easier to trouble shoot when you can bounce ideas off another person and get input.


Thanks again,
James ....

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