Go BottomJohn Deere 4200 cylinders repairs on 420 loader
 | mfurst
Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4 Masset, B.C. Canada 
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2008-03-14 152164
hello out there from the queen charlotte islands in BC Canada. I own a 2000, 4200 JD utility with a 420 loader attachement and am having problems with the loader not staying in the up position with even only a small amount of spoil in the bucket or it won't hold the weight of the tractor up as it once did. I know that my JD, like myself, is getting a little tired (1000 hrs on it)(56 years on me)I am now trying to rebuild the lift cylinders and I can not seem to get the end off of the cylinders I believe that the cap should just twist off but what is the proper procedure. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am about 1000 miles from the dealer where I purchased my JD and about a 6-8 hour ferry ride just to get to the mainland
Thnks in advance
Mernie Furst
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| whiteturbo
Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 77 Shelby NC
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2008-03-15 152191
I had a 430 loader and i replaced the seals in it. On mine about 1/2 inch or so from each end it had something soft like putty in it and if you dig that out it had a metal ring that goes all the way around inside the tube. If yours is like this find something about the same size and start pushing it until it comes out one side and then pull it with vice grips. Take your time and you will have cylinders as good as new when you are finished. I can't remember for sure it may even have a raised up part when you find then soft putty and you may be able to get something under that and start it out. Hope this helps.
Jack ....
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 | earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan 
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2008-03-16 152210
If the last post is correct on the situation, that ring keeps what is called the gland from shooting out and losing the rod.
Typically, to ease removal and installation of the gland ring, simply tap on the gland (NOT the ring) with a block of wood and brass hammer to force it back into the cylinder--be careful not to damage the rod, gland seal, the ring AND especially the gland groove. After reinstallation of the gland and the ring, simply apply normal hydraulic pressure and the gland will come right back and seat itself.
Do yourself a favor though and have the seal kit ready to install or have a well-stocked hydraulic seal supplier nearby.
Are you sure it's the rod seals though? The problem may be in the control valve. ....
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| mfurst
Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4 Masset, B.C. Canada
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2008-03-16 152213
thanks for the help guys!!! I'll try what you suggested and see what shakes out. As far as knowing if in fact it was the cylinders I'm not sure but as I have no real way of determining what or where I am getting bleed by from I thought I would do the most obvious first. I don't really want to get into the control unit because my experience with hydraulics is limited and as I mentioned the dealer is a few miles away. Also landscaping season is upon us and I need my JD
Thanks again ....
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| whiteturbo
Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 77 Shelby NC
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2008-03-17 152215
My 430 worked good after replacing the seals in all the cylinders. I could be using it and trying to load something heavy over the side of a dump truck and as i tried to dump it the bucket would fall about a foot sometimes and if i tried to use very little pressure on the joy stick it would fall and i could not control it very well. Sounds like you are on the right track. ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-03-17 152216
I'm wondering why you guys have had to replace seals so soon. My 430 is on a 4310 with about 500 hrs. The loader has never been off the tractor and has done a lot of work. So far I've never detected any leakage or creep of the cylinders. In my experience with any hydraulic cylinders you will grow a lot of gray hair before you ever see enough wear to talk about. Frank. ....
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| whiteturbo
Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 77 Shelby NC
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2008-03-17 152217
Never been off.........That may be the reason. I used my tractor to cut grass most of the time and only used the loader a few times a year. It could be hard on the seals sitting for a long time without using it. I have a 300 cx now i i liked the 430 better. They say it hooks up eaiser but i don't thin k so. ....
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| mfurst
Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4 Masset, B.C. Canada
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2008-03-17 152240
Well fella's it's a sad day up here on the Pacific northwest coast. I made the fatal error of taking my JD to my friendly neighbourhood auto mechanic and he along with my brother in law decide that they would do ol' Mern a favour and tackle the cylinder rebuild project. Both have some hydraulic experience but not enough apparently as they managed to twist the retainer ring all the way into the cylinder (using a 24" pipe wrench - when in doubt use more force - seems logical eh !!) now there seems to be a mushroomed ridge on the outside of the cylinder case and the retainer ring is totally inside with no visable way of getting a hold of it. Any suggestion other than beating a couple of good old boys to death with a mucked up cylinder or having to pay the piper and order a complete unit
Thanks & help
Mernie ....
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| whiteturbo
Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 77 Shelby NC
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2008-03-17 152241
Don't know unless you can find a piece of hard wire about the same size and start it in and push the other wire out the other side. On mine we either pulled the wire out or pushed it out and the end came right off. No way i would use the pipe wrench. ....
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| earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2008-03-18 152242
In the words of that shamed President (no, not that one), I mean Clinton, (biting lower lip and pointing) " I f-e-e-l yor' paaain!
I can't envision exactly what you're talking about, but you may be able to force it out hydraulically under normal pressure using the control. It will expode oit of there like a shot gun ---but don't worry-- the still-connected rod end will hold the gland on--so it won't completely off!
If it's mushroomed really badly you might have to to either replace the entire cylinder with a new one (ouch) or send it out to a capable, competent, and LIABLE hydraulic shop and have them cut off the offending friend...er...cylinder end and weld a new one on. It likely won't match the other side and you'll have to repaint it---so why not send out BOTH sides and make a week of it?
Makes that piece of wood and tapping hammer look really cheap now, eh?
My policies: "Don't ask to use my tools", "Friends don't let friends work on equipment". Just for this reason. And just for next time AFTER you get it running:
"Friends don't let friends (and relatives) ASK to use their equipment either" If you do you'll have one or two less of either. But like Martha Stewart would say, "And that's a good thing"
And the final and biggie: Never ever do a job ofr a friend, neighbor, or realtive for FREE. Always always charge at least a dollar. "Why?" you ask? Because any freebies will always, always end up costing a minimum of $200-$300 -- broken hose, worn-out pump, broken welds, flat tires.
Ol' Murphy (as in Law) doesn't like it when you get paid at least a dollar. ....
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