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Backhoe decision help

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1530boomer
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7 northeastern Pa.
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2005-03-05          107320


I need some help. I have a 1530 boomer series NH. Trying to make a Backhoe Decision. I have a Woods 1012 loader. Was thinking of a NH757c , or Rhino, or Bush hog, Prairie dog, but everbody says I have to stick with Woods cause of the Loader. I want a Subframe. I can get a deal on a Woods 6500 but like the specs on the 7500 or the 757C, RHINO. Looking for the best price and digging power. Do I have to stick with Woods ?? Help !!!


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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2005-03-07          107456


There has been a lot discussion on backhoes on CUTs posted here particulary on NH's. The posts are invaluable for making that critical decison.
That said, and it bears repeating, when I took delivery on my NH TC33D the dealer strongly discouraged me from thinking about a backhoe of any kind. Reasons: The machine isn't designed to effectively cope with the extremes of tension, compression, and bending forces exerted by a backhoe. When these forces exceed design-intent, the front subframe tends to separate at the bell housing. ....

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1530boomer
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7 northeastern Pa.
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2005-03-07          107464


Thanks for the comeback, but I'm a new member and I couldn't see the part after tension. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2005-03-07          107469


I sent you the rest of my post. You might want to become a member as there is a lot good stuff to read here. This is the best site I have found. ....

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DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 689 Western,Pa.
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2005-03-07          107473


earthwrks,
You make a good point about backhoe putting a lot of stress on a tractor.
But heres how I look at it. The mfg's know many owners install backhoes. The mfg's offer factory backhoes as options, therefore the mfg should be building the machine to take it.
The biggest reason I purchased a compact tractor is to have one machine do it all on my property and that includes backhoe work. ....

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DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 689 Western,Pa.
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2005-03-07          107475


1530boomer,
I can't answer your question on backhoe capatibilty with a Woods loader.I'm not familiar with Woods loaders and how they are attached. But I doubt you are restricted to a Woods only backhoe.

....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2005-03-07          107481


DK35: In a perfect world you would be correct. New Holland nor a vast majority of tractor Mfg's don't design nor build their own attachments, let alone their own equipment. Case in point: The cutting brakes on my TC33D are useless. They are both on the same side (right foot) as the HST pedal. (the only way to use the right one is the cruise control must be ON, and the pedals not connected to each other) Good design and forethought? Nope. Do guys like us buy them? Yep. The battery on my TC is located forward of the front axle in FRONT of the hot radiator. Where does the tractor bounce the most? In the front. Where does some of the heat go? In the battery. The battery ends up losing half its electrolyte bouncing (dealer info.). And where does that acid go, never mind the gases? Through the radiator, past the engine and up through the steering column hole in the shrouding and into my lungs. The ignition switch, the back of which is exposed to the elements. The same gaseous and hot air from the radiator blows into the back of the switch filling it with dirt. Good design? Hardly. Right now I have a situation with my $40,000 NH skid steer that is 25 decibels too loud (115db) according to OSHA regulations (90db) (for reference the loudest my 36" TV will go is 80db). Was NH aware of the situation but kept making and selling them anyway? You bet. (NH Reps admitted it) Now they are buying it back. Will they fix it before it's resold to some unsuspecting consumer? Of cour$e not. And what drives these things that seemingly get "overlooked"? "The bottom line" to shareholders and big $$$ bonuses to Management. So can we as consumers rely on a manufacturer to give us safe and reliable equipment? You be the judge. FYI: When I was an automotive engineer, Management's response to bad engineering was, "Let (the)Warranty (dept.) take the hit. We have a budget to keep". Pretty much sums it up. ....

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DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 689 Western,Pa.
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2005-03-07          107500


I have a whole lot of backhoe work lined around the house again for this summer and I just bought a 36" bucket (that sucker is big).
If I'm going to break my tractor in half I think this is just the bucket to do it. LOL !! ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2005-03-08          107518


Murfy's Law says that if it does break---it'll be just a day out of warranty!

Like they say in show business: "Now go break a leg"...err... bellhousing. LOL ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-03-08          107543


HEY!!! Now go ahead and rough my feathers!!! LOL I never buy extended warrenty's anymore but there are 2 things that I do buy them on. One is vacumes, my wife tears em up big time and I can make a $75 vacume with a $20 ex warrenty last for 4 years. I used to go thru printers at the rate os 1 every year to 1 1/2 yrs. I thought I beat the last one and bought the $29 extended warrenty. If ever anything goes wrong I bring it back and get a brand new one for free right there and then. YOU Guessed it. Feb. 17th was the last day of the 3 years. It has run flawlessly for the whole time. On March 2nd the printer blew the heads! Not qiute 2 days out of wrrenty but 2 weeks or so!
Thanks for stirring memories I was trying to forget (from just 1 week ago!)
earthwrks
Qoute:"{{The bottom line" to shareholders and big $$$ bonuses to Management.}}
We have been told for 4 months now, that our wages are out of line with the rest of their workers. We have told them that just "1" of their top dogs BONUSES for last year would of paid the straight wages to most of our employees for the year
I hear you!!!! And you did hit it on the head about the budgets. I went to our ""Quality controll" guy about 7-10 times last year with concerns I had. These were not nit picky concerns, they were things like ," Hey I just repaired and reworked 650 housings and the engineer will NOT go to the wash with them!!! He is assembleing them with chips,cast dust,and what ever else is stuck to them" EVERY time he said he would look into it. I stopped complaining!!! They do what they want to make their budgets look good. As long as UPPER management dont find out someone on his level made a mistake everything will be cool!!! Let the owners deal with cust. service and the warrentee dept.!!!
What a crock, you slapped her in the face on that one bubby.
This is not a CNH only problem. Its all over. ....

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brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2005-03-08          107544


OOPS sorry I went off topic, did not mean to hijack it ....

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1530boomer
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7 northeastern Pa.
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2005-03-08          107551


Getting back on the subject, Does anybody have any opinions on the Prairie Dog BH as Apposed to the Woods 7500 ?? ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2005-03-08          107552


Hijack away! Ok, my turn on the soap box: And you're right every aspect of society is this way. In my "other life" as an engineer my boss told me I would have to take a pay cut. I told her, sure if the executives turn in their WIVE'S company cars--and if she, and her boss, and his boss take a pay cut---I'd be glad to. She couldn't get it through her thick head that I was making the company money, so I told her "I'm the one that makes the company its bread and butter. I do the cost estimating AND the work for jobs I knew were bringing in $450,000 at a time". Bottom line did I take a pay cut? Heck no! In fact, I got three raises after that. You have to stand up for what you believe. People---and especially those whose gain comes from your blood, sweat and tears---will take advantage of you for as long as you let them. And as they say, if you don't like it or agree--go work, buy, or live somewhere else.

Next!
....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-03-08          107560


The NH-Rhino b-hoe are compatable with a woods loader. ....

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drcjv.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 334 southeastern pa
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2005-03-08          107565


earthwrks you seem to be very negative about your NH products. You would not use a loader or hoe on your TC33. Are you sure your negativity isn't coming from the problems you had with your skidsteer.If you have had bad luck I am sorry, but I am sure there are many TC33 owners with hoes and FEL that are perfectly happy. I am one and in three years of reading this forum I have only heard of one tractor that broke in half. I have delt with at least 5 different dealers and none have ever said not to put a hoe or FEL on a TC33 or CUT. All over this country there are hundreds of thousnds of people using CUTS every day with hoes and loaders on them with no problems. The majority of members on this sight are doing the same. Otherwise we would all just own really big and expensive lawn mowers and if thats all we were doing with the CUTS there is better and cheaper equipment to do that. ....

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drcjv.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 334 southeastern pa
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2005-03-08          107566


1530boomer I don't know about the Prairie dog or woods hoes but I do have a Rhino 75 which is the exact same as a NH 757 it works great and cost $2000.00 less than the NH. ....

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1530boomer
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7 northeastern Pa.
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2005-03-08          107568


Do you think that it will work with my woods 1012 loader ? What kind of money are they going for ? Getting lots of different prices. ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-03-08          107569


I already said that they will work with your woods loader. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2005-03-08          107573


I didn't say I wouldn't use a loader on my TC33D--in fact if I found one priced right I'd get it---but it would be used ONLY for cleaning up small piles of loose dirt on a job or mulch. I did say however, they are not intended to do any relatively serious dirt work. If you check a little deeper on this site there are loads of people who have had problems resulting from putting a backhoe on a NH (don't know about any other brands). And the most unhappy ones are guys that it happened to and the dealer/NH wouldn't stand behind the product because it was out of warranty. And in my defense, it was my dealer--specifically the mechanics--that told me what can happen. That alone will put the fear of God in you. Granted in most cases the machines will never fail. But how were those machines used? Most guys will treat their investment with kid gloves. I don't fall into that category. If I buy something for its "intended purpose"--a backhoe--a skid steer--it better stand up to the job for which it was intended. No questions asked---no being sensitive with how the machine needs to be treated under certain circumstances. And here's a certain circumastnce the dealer made me aware of on the backhoes: Most guys when trenching will not raise the downriggers and drive the machine forward to resume digging. Instead, they leave the down riggers down, lift the machine with the hoe and push back (forward). This puts tremendous leverage on the tactor at the subframe and bellhousing. Any well-designed and built (can't have one wityhout the other) machine should be able to withstand this force and much, much more--if you think about it there is even more force pulling the opposite way when you go to dig. So the machine is constantly being forced to bend up and down--a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. And as far as being negative, no, I'm being realistic and exposing the machines for what they are. As my lawyer told me about the buy-back there is a theory in contract Law that says "a product must be fit for the intended purpose". If it isn't that is a breach of contract. And I have the hearing loss and inner ear infections to prove it. So it begs the question: Why did I originally buy NH? Simple. I was ignorant of NH products as whole, and they were cheaper. ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-03-08          107576


Well then SELL them. ....

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DK35vince
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 689 Western,Pa.
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2005-03-08          107579


I'm running a Rhino 85 backhoe. I like it,good power, good speed and the controls work nice.
Goes on and off the tractor relatively quick and easy.
The subframe stays with the backhoe when removed, so it does take up some storage space. ....

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drcjv.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 334 southeastern pa
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2005-03-09          107626


1530boomer I paid $4992.00 for the Rhino 75 installed 10 months ago. ....

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drcjv.
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2005-03-09          107627


earthwrks again you say there are loads of people who had problems with a hoe on a NH. I can't find them please site the threads. I have been a member for about three years and don't remember reading a load of threds about problems with NH and hoes or NH in general. ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2005-03-09          107641


I'll search the archives and get back to you. Gotta go make some money. ....

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oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
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2005-03-09          107677


The problems with the New Holland TC33 tractors breaking is when a 3pt hoe is used. I have not yet heard of a TC 33 breaking with a sub frame mounted hoe. With the sub frame the stress is spread to three points on the tractor. 1 the rear axle housing 2 the bell housing and 3 the front bumper. With NH and rhino hoes you have a 2x4" square tubing as frame connectors and you would be hard pressed to bent those which is what would have to happen before the bell housing snapped. ....

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dfkrug
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 171 NorCal
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2005-03-17          108157


Prairie Dog 7.5 and Woods 7500 backhoes....

I am familiar with both and I sell/install the Prairie Dogs. The PDog 7.5 is an improved copy of the Woods 7500. It has some beefed up areas, esp on the main boom, and it uses 2 (instead of 1) swing cylinders. It sells for a LOT less than the Woods unit.

The neat thing about cloning the Woods hoe is that the Prairie Dog will fit on subframes from Woods. Woods builds subframes that require you have your OEM loader or the Woods loader, usually. Sometimes the loader subframe ties into the hoe subframe. ....

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1530boomer
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7 northeastern Pa.
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2005-03-17          108163


Thanks for the reply. Hows the steel in these units, Cyl Rods, do they hold up when left outside ? Fit and Finish ? ....

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dfkrug
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2005-03-17          108170


I have had no problems with Prairie Dog steel quality including hyd cylinders, rods, welds, etc. I do final assembly on the units when I get them, including some minor tweaks. I have used my demonstrator for a year, mounted with a custom subframe with no problems. Subframe bolt tightness must be monitored. This unit is sold nationwide for $4200 FOB Michigan.

BTW, the Rhino/New Holland 7.5 unit looks well-made to me, and the $4900 price quoted above is the lowest I have ever heard for that unit. NH sells it for over $7K in CA. ....

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drcjv.
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Posts: 334 southeastern pa
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2005-03-18          108212


I was quoted $6,875.00 for the NH 757 so it was an easy choice for the Rhino with the $1,883.00 for the same exact hoe. I have had several people who own JD and Kubotas use it and tell me they were impressed. I personaly love it but I have never used another brand myself. ....

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1530boomer
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7 northeastern Pa.
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2005-03-18          108213


I was looking at a Woods 7500 the other day. It seems they have a nice sturdy support plus the subframe for support. I'll have to change my loader mounts since they made a change since 1999. The woods looks good but the price i'm not sure of. Is the woods worth the Extra money ? The Rhino looks good but every dealer is creating doubt about their subframe and my Woods Loader. ....

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drcjv.
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Posts: 334 southeastern pa
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2005-03-18          108220


1530boomer the place where I got my Rhino hoe was in Lake Ariel, PA not far from Scranton. They can't be far from you if your in eastern PA I would call them. Wallace Tractor 570-689-7494. Oneace aready said it would work with the woods loader. They were very nice to work with at Wallace. ....

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dfkrug
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2005-03-18          108244


In evaluating the quality of the various 7.5 foot backhoe attachments out there, I looked at the size/thickness of the boom, dipper, pivots, the size of the cylinders/rods, but mostly I looked at the weight. Most of these units run about 850 lb with a 12-inch bucket. The Prairie Dog is just under 1100#. This does not include subframes, which I believe are necessary for CUTs, but perhaps not necessary for larger tractors. One of my Dogs is mounted on a CASE 480 with a very hefty 3-pt that includes power down.

I have used a Woods subframe to mount a Prairie Dog and I am disappointed that it puts the hoe very far out the rear of the tracter....an 1100# outrigger, which certainly affects the driveablility of a 3500# tractor. It also used a bracket that blocked off the 3-pt lower attachments even when the hoe and subframe was removed.

Woods sells their subframes for $400-1000, depending on the tractor. I prefer custom, which are not hard to build. ....

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