Go Bottomcompact loader backhoe
 | David Young
Join Date: Posts: 1 
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2000-01-26 12238
I want to excavate for a 4' frostwall and footing. The material I would have to remove includes clay, hardpan, fractured shale and gravel. I am going to need a tractor to maintain my property once my building is completed. My question is whether I should rent an industrial unit to do the excavation and then purchase the compact suited to the needs of my property or buy a compact loader/backhoe to do everything. Any info including makes would be appreciated. Thanks in advanced.
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| Tom G
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-01-27 12254
The way I figure is that a compact with a loader has a high up front cost while the cost of 3ph implements is relatively small. A small compact still costs a lot, and stepping up a few hp doesn't cost that much more.
In addition, the cost of any compact for most people is high enough so that the thinking should be how busy can the tractor be kept. A tractor that can do some construction tasks is going to be busier and not cost a whole bunch more.
On the other hand, a good reason for renting industrial equipment might be time. A compact can do most of the things a full sized tractor or a skid steer can do, but it takes longer. However, before committing myself to renting, I'd make sure that what you need can be rented and transported. I'm not sure how far I'd have to go to rent anything--60 - 150 miles I'd guess. ....
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| Paul Fox
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-01-27 12257
I have a 3 point backhoe (Woods 650) on a JD750. It will do the job, but it's slow, and shale will pound the heck out of it. If this is the only job you foresee doing, I'd recommend renting a mini-excavator. Faster, more versatile, and you don't pay for the wear.
One big limitation of 3-point compact hoes is that with their short reach, you often run out of places to put the dirt before you run out of hole to dig. ....
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| Roger L.
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 0
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2000-01-28 12296
Paul hit it right on the head. The short reach of the compact hoe means that you can work yourself into a corner pretty quickly. It is hard to do something like a foundation. The little hoe is real good for individual holes, trenches, and things where you can just pile the dirt next to the excavation and not have to drive back over that area. Don't get me wrong: the little hoe and loader can do the job. And I often do it that way because I like to do the work. But renting a real construction machine when there is lots of backhoeing to do is a smart way to go. ....
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| David Young
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-01-28 12298
Thanks for the information you have provided, I failed to mention that along with the frost wall i would be excavation for 4' crawl space. Whether or not i would be doing the excavation i will need a tractor to extract many elm and maple stumps approx. 4-5" in diameter, rotary cut thorn apple and cathartica bushes. I will also be brushhogging about 2 acres of overgrown meadow and snow plowing about 125' of drive. Part of my question is whether a compact will do the same quality as an industrial unit. I have the time as i intend to use my building as a hunting cabin with the idea of eventually adding on and useing it as my retirement home. I have looked at the Ford/NH 1720, and the equivalent
JD and Kubota. Another machine that has caught my eye in the Mitsubushi powered
Long. I know nothing about the machine but the dealer has an outstanding reputation. I know the machines i've looked at will be appropriate for property maintenance, but i'm concerned about excavation capabilities. I don't need to worry about speed, but whether they can get the job done.
Again, thanks. ....
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| Paul Fox
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-01-28 12299
Yes, any of those machines will do the job. I have dug 5' deep waterline trenches in some of the worst hellholes you can imagine, picked out rocks 3-4' in diameter, dug through shale, blue clay, pin gravel, you name it. If you take your time, the machine will do the job. I've also dug up a lot of stumps from 3" alders to 30" spruce and pine. Just take your time, keep pecking away at it, and you'll get there. The rocky country I dig in here in Maine is hard on the gear, but it has stood up well. I've had to weld the diamond on both sides (where the dipperstick hinges to the boom) and the base of the boom once. Considering the way I use it, thats not bad for 8 years. ....
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| Tom G
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-01-29 12314
I'm using my Ford 1710 for the sort of thing you describe. I'm retired so I've got the time.
The soil here qualifies as sand, so digging with the hoe is easy and doesn't stress the tractor much. There have been good threads here and on tractorbynet about backhoe use and safety. Heavy backhoe use on a light tractor can damage the tractor. 3ph hoes may be more prone to damage than sub-frame mounts. You might want to look up the old threads. Some of the old 'ballast' threads might be useful if you're planning to do construction work with the loader.
So far, the idea works for me. Although I do think that construction type work with the loader will probably take some years life expectancy off my clutch. I think tractors are happier pulling in a straight line.
I do find that I can't grade well enough with the loader blade so I'm thinking of a back blade, or more likely a box scrapper. I'm also sticking with my riding mower. The 1710, even with turf tires, tears the turf in tight turns and takes time maneuvering around the landscaping. It probably wouldn't take much more time doing the whole thing with the riding mower. Keep in mind that even a hunt camp may collect turf after retirement.
Oh, if you get a baby hoe, like mine (6' depth at 2' bottom) plan on getting on and off the tractor a lot. You have to move the tractor for every few foot of trench. Also keep in mind that trench walls collapse. You don't want to dig too close to the tractor or hop into a 5' hole and then get down on your knees unless there's somebody around to dig you out. ....
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| JerryGoucher
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 100 NW AR
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2000-01-29 12317
David, you can do just about anything with a small hoe. It just takes longer. My soil is real hard, it is mostly red dirt and rock. I just finished digging, 2300' of ditches. These ranged from 2' to 5'. As some one else said, you do have a problem with reach. When you are digging 4'-5' deep, you need to set your bucket on top of the pile and curl the bucket out. That way it will deposit the dirt and push it to the other side of the pile. ....
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| By the Brook Farm
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-01-29 12324
David, your excavation needs could be done with a shovel, so of course a backhoe would do it also. It boils down to a question of $$$ and time. I have a JD 4600 w/48 Hoe which is about as heavy duty as you can get this side of a
L-35. The hoe alone was about 7 grand and works about one-tenth the speed of a yellow backhoe. If all you are going to do is the foundation work I would just hire someone for 500 bucks to dig it out in about six hours. A compact hoe will do the work, just a LOT slower. Of course you wouldn't have any fun that way...like the other posts say, a compact can do the work you have in mind (so can a shovel) it is just a lot slower. Personally, I would get the biggest hoe/tractor combination I could afford since the smaller hoes take forever to dig out a stump. I can dig the teeth of my bucket into a 5" green maple and pull it out without even digging, roots and all. Some of the smaller hoes will nibble on that stump for twenty minutes. Can do the same with a pine up to about 7 or 8 inches. The compact tractor equation is FASTER WORK = MORE $$$. Hope this helps...rob ....
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| Jeff Pizzi
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2000-01-29 12341
I've got a JD 755 w/ #7 hoe, and I can tell you, "nibble" is the right word to discribe stump removal. I've got quite a few oak stumps, mostly 5" to 10" and they don't come out easy. They do come out though, given 20~40 minutes depending on size. It is, however, a good way to practice your backhoe operating technique. As far as digging, I can't even tell when I'm digging in cobbles, but I'd have to say if I was going to do a BIG project, I'd rent a hoe, and save the little one for the little jobs. I bought mine because it's really convenient, and I do a lot of work I wouldn't do if I had to go rent one for $200 a day. ....
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