Go Bottomhydraulic lift control
 | don henderson
Join Date: Posts: 1 
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2004-02-03 75903
I bought a used front mount snow blower attachment for my bx22. It came with a lift control with four ports, not five like the new ones. I attached it and it lifts but does not come back down. Is the control shot or do I need to replace it with one designed for the bx22 with three ports going to the tractor?
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York 
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2004-02-03 75905
That valve doesn't match with the BX's system. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-02-04 75924
Art knows details of BX hydraulics and I don't. Heck, I don't even know if the lift cylinder is single or double acting. Continuing with the 'I don't knows,' I don't know if the cylinder was charged before it was installed or if it lifted the first time and then wouldn't go down or how it was lowered. As Art says chances are that a different valve is needed.
However, if the BX has a conventional manifold block with a diverter valve and pressure and return ports then a conventional four-way valve should work (sort of)--but it may not have power-beyond capabilities. It also may not be connected right.
The connection for a double acting cylinder would be one work port to each side of the cylinder, the manifold pressure port to the valve inlet and the valve return to the manifold return. Connected in that way the cylinder exhaust oil would flow into the PB line and on to the 3ph. There would be no return path if the 3ph were in lift mode and an open centre system always needs a return path. A heavy load on the 3ph could ruin the valve.
Of course, there wouldn't be any exhaust oil the first time it was operated unless the cylinder was already charged. A five port valve has an independent line for cylinder exhaust oil that goes directly to the reservoir, which are the most common type PB valves. ....
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 | beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan 
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2004-02-04 75926
Be careful with unmatched hydraulics. You can do serious damage to the tractor. Kubota uses a regenarative hydraulic circuit that requires a continuous pressure circuit to operate properly on at least some of it's tractors (valves require Power Beyond). If you disrupt the circuit, you may not be supplying pressure to everywhere in the system that requires it. The other posters know more about the BX, and I know some about hydraulic circuits. Do some research. Make sure you understand how all the different circuits in the tractor work together. If there isn't a seperate slave pump on the hydrostat, you could really damage the transmission if there isn't pressure in the drive circuit. ....
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| donhenderson
Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3 Gloversville, ny
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2004-02-04 75949
Thank you guys for the quick replys.
I know the cylinder was not charged or primed when it was installed but i reconected the lines twice while it was up (and subsequently down) so i would think that this would prime it.
As to the valve not matching the bx's system i would guess then that the control would have to be replaced with one that does mat
Thanks ....
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| donhenderson
Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3 Gloversville, ny
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2004-02-04 75952
I think i will just go ahead and buy the proper hydraulic control. I'd hate to end up penny wise and pound foolish, as seems to usaully be the case.
I called my kubota dealership and they quoted me a price of $660 for the control!!!! It seems everytime i get anything from Kubota I get screwed. I purchased a 10 spline quick connect yoke and shaft from kubota for 286 last summer and just recently purchased a custom dual yoke shaft from a tractor supply for 132. Anybody have any suggestions?
....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-02-04 75965
A single spool control valve with power beyond capability will run about $200 for a 12 gpm spool. Fittings, hoses extra. Be careful matching fittings for the spool valve. Lot of thread options to pay attention to. The fifth line you mentioned will normally indicate PB is reuqired in the circuit. ....
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| donhenderson
Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3 Gloversville, ny
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2004-02-04 75968
Thanks,
I'll go back to the tractor supply company and see if they can put a matching one together for me. I appreciate the help. ....
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| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2004-02-05 76055
If the valves are still available 2200 valve is cheaper the B2013 three way is 500 and the B2014 four way is 588. The new one is that price. Check around and you might be lucky and find an old model valve at a dealer. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-02-06 76103
Always something to learn here. I'm curious what the regenerative line on some Bota's does. I'm guessing it's HST related. I think Art's comment brings up a terminology issue. A traditional way of classifying valves is that the 'ways' is a count of the number of ports and the 'positions' is a count of the functions on the operating lever. Under that classification, a conventional single spooling valve would be a 4-way/three-position valve. Kubota may have a different way of classifying their valves. ....
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| beagle
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1333 Michigan
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2004-02-06 76188
Going along with Tom's question about the regenerative circuits, it has to do with the pressure and fluid availability at the spool valve. Supposed to allow for better implement control. The regen cicuit is ported in the valve itself. There is actually a partial position in the valve for "regen", allowing precise but fast control with full load. Instead of the return fluid porting to exhaust, it is "regenerated" into the pressure circuit. Closed loop hydrostats are a continuous "regen" circuit between the pump and motor, with a slave pump to make up hydraulic losses. The slave pump uses reservoir oil to supplement fluid loss in the closed circuit. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-02-07 76223
Thanks Beagle. It sounds like a regen feature on a loader fast dump valve (and something I sure wish I'd have) but maybe it's more than that.
One of the advantages of open centered systems is that they operate at low pressure although at full volume when no hydraulics are active. It does take time for pressure to build when a valve is operated and that can have the benefit of reducing shock loads. I suppose there's a possibility of too much of a good thing though.
I can sure see how it'd be good to have good control over pressure when going from forward to reverse in a HST. I didn't know how it's done though. I can see how tapping into a HST pump circuit could be tricky. ....
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