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professor
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5 Alberta
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2007-04-25          141506

Any matches for Fram or something a little more common for the Yanmar OIL FILTER replacement? Mine is a 119660-35150 Yanmar oil filter. Yanmar is not very accesable where I am. What about matches for the HYDRAULIC filter and FUEL filter?? I have the 226D from about 1989.

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2007-04-25          141508

Check with any Baldwin Filter distributor, I sold filters for them for yesrs, there just isn't a filter they can't match. Frank. ....

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kthompson
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2007-04-25          141521

Hardwood, they have a great web site. Found filters by just brand and model of tractor. Found filters that only could be found at dealership as told to me by two parts stores and one other tractor dealership.

Now, you sold for them, but you still recommend them? Correct? kt ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2007-04-25          141523

Yes, I still highly recommend them. I sold them for probably 20 yrs. and used them on all my equipment and trucks, cars, right down to the lawn mowers. The have an unbeatable warranty against any damage that their filter, when properly i8nstalled could cause your tractor, cambine, etc. I don't like brand bashing, but what sold me on becoming a dealer was when the territory manager had a Baldwin and a Fram cut open to compare the amount of filter media and the quality of the internal parts like anti drainback valves, etc. there was no question which filter you wanted on your equipment. I now use Deere filters for my Deere simply because they wee forced to lower their filter prices a few years ago because NAPA, Baldwin, Wix, were underselling them so bad that Deere could hardly sell a filter anymore, and it just is handy being I'm at the Deere dealer pretty often any how. Nuff from me. Frank. ....

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kthompson
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2007-04-25          141524

Hardwood you mentioned something I find interesting in my Kubota oil filter, it does not seem they use an anti drain back valve in at least one filter I use of theirs. I have notice several filter changes there is never any oil in the filter (mounted on it's side) when I change them. Thanks for the info on Baldwin filters. kt ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2007-04-25          141526

Kthompson; You have me thinking back about the anti drainback issue. A filter that "Hangs", threads to the top when installed does not require an anti drain back valve. A filter that sits on the threads normaly requires an anti drainback valve, (some engines have the anti drainback valve in the filter base) to keep the oil on the outside of the paper media from draining back to the crankcase and also a standpipe in the center to keep the oil from draining into the center outlet going to the oil gallery, one with out the other will do no good. In the case of horizontal mount filters an anti drainback on the outside of the media would keep half the oil in the filter, but with or without a standpipe the oil leaks down to the level of the center opening of the filter. Perhaps now they have a valve in the center outlet that will open with minimal pressure, I don't recall anyone having that feature at that time. Another thing to consider is the quality of the pressure relief bypass valve in most filters to prevent a canister from bursting in extremely cold weather or in case of a totally clogged filter to maintain oil flow to the oil gallery. A little tip that My Dad pounded into my head was to always fill filters that hang with new oil before installing them to help prevent dry starts, some bigger engines with two filters can hold a gallon or more in the filters. Not trying to pretend to be an expert on anything, but just things I picked up along the way. Frank. ....

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randywatson
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 109 texas
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2007-04-25          141527

Interesting discussion, as a result I did some research on the web, and will no longer be using any Fram Oil Filters (i'v always thought they were good) on my equipment or vehicles. (gonna go A/C delco or Motorcraft)

As a side note I came across a web site advertising ceramic magnets to insert into a standard oil filter, the claim was it would attract metalic particals small enough to pass through the oil filter media before oil went back into the crank case,

I just finished a rebuild on the 7100 and remembered blasting metalic particals off a magnet permanately attached to the bottom of the oil pan.

I'm wondering if a magnet placed inside the return on a oil filter would accomplish what they said it would? any thoughts?

....

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JAZAK5
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2007-04-25          141535

my DONALDSON cross reference filter guide list a donaldson filter #P550726 listing to manufactures KOMATSU / YANMAR for filter 119660-35150
TO CHECK THEM OUT www.donaldson.com
donaldson makes most of the filters for john deeres yanmar engined products
I have placed small high powered magnets on the outside of all my vehicals and equipement oil filters. You only have to cut a filter open ONCE to see what a normal 10 micron filter misses !!!!!!!!!! Remember its not dirt but METAL !!!!
Engine heat does not destroy the magnet /reusable.
as of 4/25 8pm this number was good on the DONALDSON site.. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2007-04-26          141543

I've heard of both the internal and external magnet, but haven't used them. Where do you place the internal magnet? Long as it doesn't block oil flow it should work fine. The external one seems like a less messy way. It would be interesting to cut open a filter after an external magnet was on it. Frank. ....

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kwschumm
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2007-04-26          141544

I can see a magnet in the pan work, since the oil pools there, but it's hard to imagine an external magnet trapping many particles with pressurized oil rushing by. I've been wrong before. Cutting a filter open that has had an external magnet attached would be an interesting exercise. ....

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randywatson
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 109 texas
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2007-04-26          141566

I think I'm gonna try to find one like in the add and give it a try during next filter change, just to see what happens, will cut the filter after and see results in person, will let everyone know the results. ....

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JAZAK5
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2007-04-28          141612

I place the magnet on the end of the filter housing on the flat spot where the internal spring pushes the filter against the base ....

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FullPull
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 11 WA State
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2007-04-29          141624

just baught a ym-240d the first thing i did was to change the oil before firing it up.. it had a (side mount) FRAM extra guard oil-filter (PH3593A).. the tactor had not been started in YEARS .. much to my supirse i was holding my breath when i unscrewed the filter.. i expected the oil to gush out.. but it was dry as a bone. .. i went to napa an asked the teller for a FRAM (PH3593A) he said WOW that filter fits my honda civic..lol ... i was not aware of ANTI-DRAINBACK FILTERS.... WELL to make a long story short i am chasing down a random KNOCK in my motor so i am going to drop the pan and i have orderd a JOHN DEER FILTER (M801002) who knows maybe the (fram/honda) filter cold be starving the oil system causing my random knock.... .. but who knows... .. . you never know ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2007-04-30          141651

I do remember having an engine in some piece of farm equipment that had a magnet about the size of a lead pencil maybe a half inch tall on the drain plug for the oil pan. It never had much on it but you copuld find some steel. Parts stores likely sell these? Frank. ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
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2007-04-30          141654

Just read today's (4-30-07) Cedar Rapids Gazette. Tom and Ray Magliozzi's, (Click and Clack on PBS) discussion on oil filter magnets. Being we've been discussing them it was interesting reading. In case your paper doesn't carry their column their opinion was, "Kinda over kill, but if it makes you feel better, go for it". I'm not saying I agree or disagree with thwem, just passing along what they said. Frank. ....

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AnnBrush
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 463 Troy OH
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2007-04-30          141657

Personally I think its all a crap shoot - I buy JD filters for my machine - they change the part number all the time - (its been superseeded is what they tell me) and some have drain back valves some dont, some have springs in them some dont - the only consistent thing is that they are painted black. I am sure any decent filter will work just fine ....

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randywatson
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 109 texas
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2007-04-30          141658

Yea, been doing some more research, On the Fram, no anti drain back valve can cause dry starts evan on a horizontal mount, that's why I' switching.

Re Magnets, two types found, one goes inside filter,through the mounting threads, which is the return path for filtered oil. It claims it is supposed to attract stuff which has already passed through the filter media before the oil goes back to the engine. Add shows a before and after photo, the after shows lots of stuff stuck to the magnet. However the add indicates the magnet "magnetizes the interior metal support for the media", causing the collection of <10-20 micron particals on the media support can, If in fact the magnet caused the support can to be magnetized, why would there be that much stuff stuck to the magnet when it was removed?

Now, I would have serious doubts to the quality of any filter, that allowed so much stuff to pass through the media and then be visible on the magnet. Also, if in fact the magnet trapped all of those <10-20 micron particals, and they built up on the magnet, those particals them selves would take on magnetic properties.

Eventually a clump will break loose into the oil stream, and possibly be carried directly to the internal parts being lubed, I would think a clump of particals would cause more damage that a single partical which had passed the media filter not sticking to other particals.

Second type is on outside of can, surrounding, or on then end of filter, those are supposed to attract through the can. The advertisments show a can opened with only xxx number of miles driven, and show obvious stuff sticking to the internal part of the can directly under the attached magnet. The problem with that would be any thing stuck to that type of magnet would have been captured before the oil went through the filter media.

Not necessarily bad, it could extend the life of the filter, by removing particals before the oil hit the media resulting in less clog up of media and extending the life of the media.

However if the oil filter goes into bypass mode,(read cold oil at start of day) the oil then washes across the media between the can and media, (possibly picking up all the stuff stuck to the interior of the can) and goes unfiltered back to the engine. Keeping mind the particles themselves pick up magnetic properties and the clumping effect

Keeping in mind these items claim the attraction of <20-10 micron particle size and keeping in mind that a micron is (I think) about 1/1000 the diameter of a hair or 1/millionth of a meter.

My personal observations,
1. I will in the future purchase, OMS oil filter, that filters down to 20 microns, the filter will have a anti drainback valve to keep the filter full of oil to eliminate dry starts,

2. not race any engine on startup causing oil filter bypass to be minimized, allow warm up of oil before getting to work. (warm oil also causes less bypass of filter media)

3. Continue to change oil and filter reqularly as called for in manufacture instructions.

4. continue to follow OEM specs on oil recommendation.

5. No longer by a filter by price.

Know this was long, but wanted to clarify my new position.

....

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kthompson
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2007-04-30          141660

Randy, just wondering what if the OEM filter does not have an anti drain back valve, and another company's did. Which would you buy if the filter was not mounted where it held the oil? ....

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randywatson
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2007-04-30          141661

Personally if the filter was not positioned to hold oil during engine off, I'll make every effort to find one with an anti drain back.

otherwise every time the engine starts after it has been sitting awhile, the oil pump has to push oil through the system to the filter, through the filter, to the parts needing lube.

it may only take a couple seconds but during that time, the bearings are dry and wearing ....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2007-04-30          141663

Someone once said that 90% of all engine wear happens in the first 90 seconds after startup. Don't remember who said it, but it does make a lot of sense. Frank. ....

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randywatson
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2007-04-30          141664

it's true...cause during that time the oiling system is not under it;s correct operating presure and there's no film of oil between the moving metal parts.

thats why it is important to get the system "primed" ASAP by not having the oil drain out of the filter, and not race the RPMS immediately on startup. ....

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hardwood
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2007-04-30          141666

Randy; The only caution I'll throw up about your getting an anti drainback filter is. Be double sure the engine was designed to have an anti drainback filter, some engine filter bases have an drainback valve in them. DOUBLE check to be sure before using any filter design not recommened by the engine builder. Filter mis application can be as disastrous as a poor quality filter. Frank. ....

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randywatson
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2007-04-30          141667

10/4 ....

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kwschumm
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2007-04-30          141671

Randy, you did some good analysis there. I like the way you think :) ....

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randywatson
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2007-05-02          141723

Thank you,

Even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then,

RJ... :) ....

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kthompson
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2007-05-03          141729

Randy, I agree you did a very good job. But as to the hog, I believe he finds the acorns with his nose. But I have never asked a hog while he was rooting. It seems they use to say a reporter had a "nose for news". Maybe that is why the news reporting has gotten so sorry, no noses. kt ....

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randywatson
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2007-05-03          141737

Hummm....guess I need to change that to

Even an olfactory impared hog finds and acorn every now and then......:) :)


Or how bout, a hog with a head cold..... ....

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hardwood
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2007-05-03          141739

Randy, sorry but you are getting way ahead of my hlllbilly education. I've raised many thousands of hogs since the late 50's. I've dealt with mean hogs, lazy hogs, stubborn hogs, blind hogs, dead hogs, stupid hogs, smart hogs, but. Pray tell us hillbillys what is an "Olfactory Impaired Hog"? Enjoy those pork chops. Frank. ....

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randywatson
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2007-05-03          141740

Speaking of Hillbilly education, I grew up in the hills of WV, dont get much more hillbilly than me, could we have been neighbors at one time,

as to olfactory imparement,that would be the politically correct way of saying can't smell....the result of being away from the hills to long, but gonna visit the end of the month...feel free to direct e-mail ....

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DRankin
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2007-05-03          141745

Hey.... some of us used to be cops. Get nervous with all this porcine conversation.

Back to oil filters. Good thread. I no longer try to "save money" on oil filters either. The way I drive my tractor the oil only gets changed every other year anyway. I think I can afford that extra 6 bits a year.

Even on the cars and trucks in the driveway, I stick to OEM stuff. At least I don't have to worry about someone trying to shave 20 cents off the manufacturing costs to add to the bottom line.

I read a gun review recently where the manufacturer was trying to be the least expensive model on the market to appeal to first time buyers. They persevered the price points by selling the gun with magazines so poorly make that they caused the gun to malfunction. Makes sense? No, but I fear they do the same with mass marketed oil filters.


On the dry start thing, my brother in Alaska found a tiny 12 volt external oil pump somewhere and mounted it on his Ford diesel.

He just pushes a switch for 30-60 seconds and it pre-lubes the engine before he starts it on cold mornings. ....

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randywatson
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2007-05-03          141746

great idea on external oil pump,

....

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ronald65
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2007-05-04          141771

Just wanted to mention,My Kubotas'Hydraulic oil filters are Magnetized, found quite a bit of metal on first and second oil changes,not much on last one.I was told this is normal on new Tractor. Ron ....

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auerbach
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2007-09-25          146070

Fram Canada told me they don't. If you have add-on power steering on your 226, the only filter that isn't so long that the steering bits will eventually puncture it is a yannie. For the couple of bucks extra they cost, I wouldn't use a presumed equivalent. ....

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