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diesel goes knock knock knock

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FullPull
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 11 WA State
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2007-03-30          140846

i just bought a old limegreen yanmar 240d 2 cyl diesel that was left out in the weather for 10 YEARS!! .. i know nothing about diesels... i drained all the fuel and got her to fire right up.... Knock!! Knock!! Knock!!! She Went!!!.. I was so HAPPY :)... i know these 2cyl diesels knock like hell...but it had no power and NO SMOKE!! .. is it true that bad injectors can cause excecive Knocking?? .. ....... some times it Knocks at idel..some times it knocks at higher RPM ....... when it knocks at a given RPM (FAST OR SLOW) i just speed it up or lower the RPM.. then it sounds OK..(for about one minute).. I HAVE TO ALWAYS ADJUST THE RPM TO AVOID KNOCKING.................. IS IT A ROD??. . . IS IT A INJECTOR OR THEINJUCTOR PUMP??.. . . IS IT THE TIMMING???? . .. ... .. .. ... .. .. .. .. PLEASE HELP!!!!
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diesel goes knock knock knock

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2007-03-30          140861

Risky business here, but to loosen the injector line to the cylinder individually would tell you which cylinder has the trouble. To switch the injectors would tell you if one is the problem as the knock will switch cylinders. You should wear glasses and coveralls when doing this as to loosen the line will have high pressure fuel spraying most everywhere! ....

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diesel goes knock knock knock

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2007-03-30          140862

Risky business here, but to loosen the injector line to the cylinder individually would tell you which cylinder has the trouble. To switch the injectors would tell you if one is the problem as the knock will switch cylinders. You should wear glasses and coveralls when doing this as to loosen the line will have high pressure fuel spraying most everywhere! ....

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diesel goes knock knock knock

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-03-30          140864

Art is on the right track, but I would offer a couple of pointers, and need a little more info. too.

First, it might be easier, and safer, to loosen an injector line, wrap the dickens out of it with rags, then start the beast with some WD-40 or similar NOT ETHER or quick start. This way the fuel is better contained, but it will take longer.

Any chance the previous owner will give you any background? Any information is better than tearing it down for nothing.

If I understand what you are saying, it will knock, after a minute, at any rpm? It's not uncommon for the injectors to leak down, causing air to be trapped behind them, this would make it act strange until it was cleared out. Slacking off each injector line will do this, so will some run time.

IMHO, you should completely drain the fuel system, clean it out well, and refill it with fresh clean diesel, and add a good amount of Power Service. Then drain out the oil, check it carefully for any metal particles or debris, cut open the filter and also check it's contents, then install a new filter and fresh oil. Only then will you have a better idea of what is going on. You might also want to consider taking the pump and injectors to a specialist to have them both checked and cleaned properly.

Best of luck. ....

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FullPull
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 11 WA State
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2007-03-30          140867

no i can`t get any backgrond or history on the tractor... the owner passed away and his son sold it to me... after turnning it over sevral times bleeding the injector line fitings i fired it up for the first time... wile i was sittng on the tractor my brother grabed a wrench to bleed the lines... as he cracked each line opend the knocking would stop then return a few seconds after tightening the line back up.... then i discoverd by adjusting the RPM i could control the knocking...but then it would start kocking agan..... we ran the loader for about half an hour just to test it out.... it luged down vary easy and knocked like hell under a vary light load..... PS. thanks for the warning.. we didnt know about the dangers in bleading the lines wile it is running... next time i will have him ware eye protction ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2007-03-30          140868

I'm a former Y240 owner, and I'm here to tell you that they KNOCK even when they're running right. It's the nature of two cylinders, and why a lot of folks call them Yamma-Hammers.

But the lack of power isn't right, two cylinders generally have huge amounts of torque.Perhaps you can provide some more specifics if you ignore the noise and concentrate on the power issue.

//greg// ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2007-03-30          140876

Most all two cylinders do have a knock to them, I guess for your ears only, find one the same model or close and listen to it run. I wasn't thinking of someone not used to how one would sound to begin with. They do normally smooth out under load but do have a distint sound......

Thanks Murf! ....

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FullPull
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 11 WA State
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2007-03-30          140882

yes first thing i did was to remove the fluids and change the oil filter ther was no metal in the oil.. i have been around diesels quite a bit.. a perkens 6 and a vary loud perkens 4 banger!! the perkens 6 was nice and smooth running with vary little knock.. the perkens 4 banger was a real rattle trap with lots of knock!! i sleeped next to both engines for days at a time on my dads fishing boats..but the knock was more of loud tick.. and it was a constant knock!! this is more of a RANDOM Knock!! it comes and goes at random... it can be doing fine at any given RPM..then it starts to slowly build to a louder knock i chang the RPM and te knock smooths out...then the knock slowely builds up, i change the RPM again and the knock goes away.. if i play it by ear i can run the motor just fine.. could i be a bad injuctor pump?? .. when we bleed the lines it just dirps from the line fittings.. is this normal?? i know about the danger at the end of the injuctors but i didnt think it was dangerus to blead the lines at the injuctors... i hope i have given enough info... ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2007-03-31          140885

Given that description, you might have a piston slapping. If you're lucky, it just might be a connecting rod that needs tightening on the journal. Before running it again, it might be a good idea to pull the oil pan and grab both conn rods. While you're under there, try to feel if a crank bearing might be going bad too.

I think there's a screen on the oil pump pickup that you might clean while the pan's off too.

Having said that, I'm not sure that a loose conn rod would be responsible for that you describe a that significant power loss. But at this point it's much easier to pull the oil pan than to pull the head.

Do you get the power back when the "knocking" stops?

//greg//

....

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2007-04-01          140906

I would take a look at the injectors first and check pressure from pump. Timing is the next thing that I'm ah thinkin.

Never played with those kind so NFI on the timing steps. Some one smarter than me can probably explain how to check on that engine. ....

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Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2007-04-01          140913

Your perkins diesel when an injector starts to wander it will sound just like a rod bearing out! We change them out till we get the knock out. Even seen engines torn apart from it. It should have sounded like it was skipping if you had the line lossened that much. It is tough on a two cylinder to tell a skip but the engine should have lost some rpm. Still cheap to have the injectors checked. ....

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FullPull
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 11 WA State
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2007-04-03          140966

I Want To Thank Everyone for your quick responces.. yes it did tend to lose power as the knock got louder.. i looked at the oil pan and it is vary easy to drop so checking the rods should be vary easy:) BTW when i changed the oil i used CASTROL (GTX) DIESEL 15W-40W the weather was about 48% i am thinking maybe i shold have used a lighter grade Oil????? after thinking about the way it was acting the loss of power and knocking whent hand and hand. so i am thinking that maybe the pump was having truble kepping up with the required pressure causing the randome KNOCK and power loss.... (however).. it will be a few days before i can start the tractor to post further info, do to the fact i have the transmission half apart replacing shifting forks and linkage i am unable to start the tractor untell i get my parts...but that is a nother story...ll... i will pick up this post at that time.... i still have questions about how to check pump timming and fuel pressure... is it possible to buy some kind of aftermarket fuel pressure guage to install in the dash of a tractor so i can check and monitor fuel pressure at all times??? is it possible for a backyard mechanic to adjust pump timming if they have a good manual??.. the guy i bought this tractor from said it has been sitting for 10 years but after working on it i am thinking it must have been closser to 18 years..lol ..anyway.. my brother called and told me that he has a stethoscope so maybe we can play it by ear to find the true location of the knock!! then i can get back on line and tell you weather the Knock is comming from the top--or--bottem-end before blindly throwing money at a problem that may not not be a problem and only a fuel maintenance/timming or adjustment issue.... i will be checking back soon :)
... thank you :) ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2007-04-03          140970

-15W40 is suitable for year round use in moderate climates. But no oil will do you any good unless it's pumped to where it's needed. That's why I suggested you clean the pump pickup. Once you get it started again, you should check the oil pressure immediately.
-after 10 years, the oil pressure idiot light is probably not working. Walmart has cheap ($10) mechanical gauges that you can use to replace the OE sending unit
-fuel pressure test sets for diesel engines aren't cheap, you might want to hire that done. And since it's already started, you know you have fuel delivery. I think determining oil pressure should be a higher priority.
-a fuel pressure gauge on the dash is unnecessary, you'd be better off with oil pressure and coolant temp gauges
-never timed my YM240, not sure it can be done without actually removing the pump. It appears to be an old-fashioned lever type pump. I'm guessing there's two levers inside, each moved up and down independently by the rotating crankshaft. Not sure if that type pump allows much latitude for adjustment.
-search eBay for the specific YM240 service manuals; one for service, another for parts. Get the ones that are YM240 only, they're more informative than the ones that cover multiple models. Pricey, but money well spent

//greg// ....

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FullPull
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 11 WA State
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2007-04-05          141050

the guage is a vary good idea :) i will run off to wallmart and pick up a set of guages. i would like to also add a water and charging guage as well.... can you tell me what brand you baught or just read what it says on the guage so i can pick up the same guage that you have.... then i have one more favor to ask... can you please walk me thru installing the guage???.. it is my guess the sending unit will be next to the oil filter and whare did you pull the power from to light up the guage??... ... .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. PS., the tranny work is comming along vary well :) i went to the john/deer dealer and orderd most the parts needed to fix the shift linkage.. new shift rods/spacer/spring/clips/boot and ball.. .. the only thing he couldnt order was the shifting forks and a little peace of tin called the (shift guide) and the top aluminum cap the shift ball rides in.. i will have to weld and fill the shift forks and shift guide then grind the welds smooth if i cant find used parts... . this thing sat for at least 10 years without a rubber shift boot to keep the water out... the fluid was like milk!! full of water, the shift forks were coverd with rust.. but i will get the old girl up and running again like a new tractor in no time :)
THANKS AGAIN ....

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greg_g
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1816 Western Kentucky
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2007-04-05          141060

The gauge I referred to is mechanical, which means it has it's own oil line. You remove the original OPSU, screw in the flexible oil piping that comes with the gauge, mount the gauge, you're done. I'm not sure I'd want a lighted mechanical gauge - electricity so close to oil under pressure, and all that. But if the mechanical gauge actually has a lighting option, you should be able to pick up 12v from the old idiot light wiring.

//greg// ....

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diesel goes knock knock knock

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FullPull
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 11 WA State
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2007-04-22          141426

ok i am ready to drop the oil pan and inspect the oil pump and conecting rods.... i hate to ask so many stupid questions but here i go again... when inspecting the rods&crank for knock&slop do i need to unbolt the rod caps?? .. can i use a feeler guage to check for side to side slop??.. i have been told you can check a rod for kock by using a block of wood and a hammer by placing the block of wood on the rod cap and tapping it listening for a hollow sound .. .. .. does this work?? is there a easy way to check the mains??
thank you:)
FULL/PULL ....

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