Go BottomKubota B2920 - Turf Tires or R4
 | ACS035
Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 5 Casco, Michigan 
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2008-09-12 156613
I've been in the market for a compact utility tractor for some time now. I believe I've settled on the Kubota B2920 with a FEL and MMM. I own 7 acres (5 of which is finished lawn and the rest old farm land). Should I get turf or R4 tires. My worry with turf is that if I need to plow (soil or snow) that thre will be slippage. I know the R4's will do well, but I don't want my lawn tore up when I mow.
BTW, after reading some posts, I am now a little concerned about the MMM. I would prefer the MMM due to better cut they give compared to the 3 pt attachment. Any comments here would also help. I've been looking at so many different size tractors and manufacturers, it's all starting to blend together.
Al
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| catred57
Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9 Bllomington, IL USA
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2008-09-12 156614
I have TURF tires on both my Kubotas and if I have any chance of slippage, I put them in 4-wheel drive and drive on. No problem in snow either as long as I use a counterweight. Turf tires don't tear up my 3 Acre lawn like R4 tires would. Turf are my preference. ....
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 | cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York 
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2008-09-13 156646
I have owned several tractors with both and I prefer the R4. Until recently, I mowed three acres with my MMM as well.
If you intend to do much loader work the MMM is a pain to remove and install by yourself every time where the 3pt is not as bad. Personally, I don't care for the three point unless it is a Bush Hog but then I have a ton of stuff to trim around. Ultimately, I ended up purchasing a zero turn and I use that to mow. Now I have a heated cab on the Kubota and the loader and blade stay on it year round.
As for brands, the NH is the MM deck I liked the best, the downside is that the tractor gave me fits. JD was terrible to keep level and never did cut very well unless the ground was perfectly flat. In the middle of the pack is the Kubota, nice cut but the large caster wheels will dig into soft turf when they "spin". Art White and I spoke about this and he told me that he has fabricated a spring mechanism that relieves some of the deck weight.
If I had all this to do over, I would have purchased the zero turn initially and a used TLB for the other stuff. Just ended up costing me a ton of money to finally end up there.
....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa 
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2008-09-14 156650
5 acres is a lot of lawn to mow, have you considered some sheep? Just kidding, I can mow about an acre an hour with a JD 345 rider with a 54 in. deck, I don't know how wide of a deck you are considering for the MMM, but from what I've seen you need 60 in. or more to cover the wheel tracks and that seems to be about the limit unless you have a pool table flat yard. So maybe lets look at your situation a bit different. First, there is kind of an upper limit as far as speed when mowing so you likely wouldn't go much faster than I do with the rider, and secondly six more inches of deck won't improve your acres per hour much over my 54 in rider. I agree with you, mid mount decks do a better job of mowing than rear mounts, but they are expensive and a real pain to mount and dismount. As we have been discussing on another thread maybe put the MMM dollars toward a good used rider and avoid the misery of maintaining the MMM. With seven acres to maintain you are most likely going to have a front end loader, box blade, raar blade, etc., so back to your original question on tires. This is my third compact that I now have and all have been on R4's, I demo'd a compact on turfs and just wasn't happy so I stayed with the R4's. There is no perfect tire but In my case where I don't mow front yard with the R4's I feel they do a better job in ground working situations and I've plowed snow for years with them and get along fine. Hope this helps. Frank. ....
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| ACS035
Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 5 Casco, Michigan
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2008-09-14 156651
Thanks for the info Frank (and others). I currently have a JD GT235 w/ 54" deck. It takes me about 4 hours to cut the 5 acres. Frist, I was hoping I could go a little faster with the 60" MMM to shorten my time, but it sounds like I may not be able too. Second, since I do not have a pole barn yet, I was hoping to just have to store one tractor at this time (plus, my mom could use my JD for her property). The property is basically a flat rectangle, so I am hoping the MMM is OK. I'm starting to think the R4 will be OK as long as I limit the sharp turns and watch it when the lawn gets wet. Not thrilled about all the discussion about it being a pain to dismount, but not wanting to have 2 pieces of equipment now is the driver for that. Thanks again. ....
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 | auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2008-09-14 156652
You want turfs for lawn mowing. I add four chains (and rear blade) for snow work. You could try only front ones at first (cheaper and easier to install), but most of the traction comes from the rears.
With mower off get the dealer to show you how to adjust the belt tension, how to install it, and how to adjust it, including getting maximum ground clearance when full up. Unless you need more clearance for loader work, the heavy mower will give better traction and stability. I do all sorts of loader work with the mower on, just taking care to not catch a blade on a rock or curb.
Not true that the MMM mows better; in fact, being wider, it mows worse on undulating ground. But you can compensate by adjusting the mowing height on the fly (at least on mine). And it makes the rig more manoeverable as there's no rear extension (but you could back a rear mower under an overhang).
The MMM is harder to service when on, to attach/detach, and to store, and it costs more. But I've heavily used my 60-incher for 30 years on more acreage than yours. It's rugged. Total maintenance: belts every 5-odd years, one of the three spindles replaced (shouldn't have loaned out my grease gun), and a set of blades. Come fall I haul it up for storage on a chain hoist, clean it right away after removing the blades for sharpening, oil-spray the under-surface (tried coating with "slippery" graphite paint but made no difference) and grease the PTO shaft.
You grease the spindle zerks about every 8 hrs of use. It's a slight reach to get the center one, but the outside ones are easy. If you have only two hands you'll want a pump-handle grease gun with a swivel at the end, or an air-powered with flexible hose. And squirt the zerks at both ends of the shaft a few times during the season. ....
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 | kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2008-09-14 156653
Sometimes I take heat for this opinion but I don't think R4s have any place on a compact tractor unless it's time is spent exclusively on hard surfaces. The shallow treads plug easily with sticky mud and snow and they don't have enough purchase to work in powdery soil conditions. To make matters worse the sidewalls are so stiff that if you mow five acres with those things your brain won't stop bouncing off the inside of your skull for a month. I'd say go with the turfs and buy a set of chains if needed. ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-09-14 156657
KW; My brain is pretty well shot so it must be from the R4's. Seriously now, the reasons I rejected the turfs were one, for that very reason they were soft and just didn't give me a stable feeling when doing loader work, and secondly at least in my soil types if there was any mud, or even wet grass at all you were stuck instantly. The R4's are not as good as R1's (ag tread) in mud or snow but I've always felt they were the best compromise for my situation. One of our 345 Deere rider mowers came from the factory with R1 Ag tread tires, the only one I've ever saw with them. The other one identical in every other way has turfs. The 345 is a much lighter machine than a compact, but I've never been able to distingish which mower went where on the lawn even in wet conditions. Frank. ....
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| auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2008-09-14 156658
You're right, Hardwood, but after I put liquid ballast in my rear turfs, and increased the pressure in all four, I found them solid enough to handle loader work. ....
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 | kthompson
Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5275 South Carolina
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2008-09-15 156663
A few years ago we purchased a Case (larger tractor than being talked about here) that came with I think Goodyear Radials. Those were some of the best traction tires I have ever used. At same time that 7,000 pound tractor or so was used to cut 3 lawns and due to the design of the lugs or rather lack of lugs they were great. The pattern looked like a mix of ag tire and turf tire. They were ag tires. So there may be an option you that would suit you that may require the help of the dealership in swapping them. kt ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-09-15 156668
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Frank, I sure hop you are kidding!!!
An acre an hour!! Good lord man, you should be able to cut about 3 times that much without breaking a sweat.
But, back to the topic at hand, for my money, and if I wasn't FORCED to run R4's on most of the fleet, I'd have turf tires on everything!!
I snowplowed commercially for years on full turf's and had much better traction than the guys running lug tires (R1's or R4's), the same with most finish earth works, final grading and so on, the turfs won hands down!!
Best of luck. ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-09-15 156675
Murf; OK, one of my greatest relaxation things is mowing grass, so I never do it in a hurry, my mowing is what golf or fishing is to others. Acording to Uncle Sam's farm field maps I have after building aeria has been subtracted about 3.25 acres of lawn plus two county road ditches that connect to the lawn, so maybe 3.5-3.7 acres total to mow, it takes me about three hours. Two small trees an LP tank and a flag pole are the only things to mow around, other than the house and shed so very little time spent with that. I have no idea how fast I go when mowing, but I would compare it to a healthy adult pushing a Lawn Boy, however fast that would be. So how fast should I go and why? Knowing you do commercial mowing makes speed a factor of doing business. I see the kids going at warp speed running the commercial mowers around town, I just assumed they went that fast because the boss wasn't there. Oh, I almost forgot about the tire thing, you like turfs I like R4's, you probably drink some kind of Canadian brew, I drink MGD, (in glass), same thing. Keep warm. Frank. ....
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 | bvance
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 280 The Great Pacific NorthWet, Olympia, WA
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2008-09-16 156681
There was a similar question on this topic just a while back with the same sorts of disagreements as well.
R-4's will tear lawns and leave impressions in most but the very firm and dry lawns and in my country (the Great NorthWet) that's all but about 60 days a year here.
I have turfs and I never lose traction in the wet grass, which again in this country is most of the time.
To me, traction in most conditions is all about friction and the more rubber you have in contact with the surface the more friction or traction you will get. In mud and very loose soil, lugged tires will help, but for most homeowners those conditions are rare....and even then a lugged tire will usually slip.
I agree with Murf on this one again, get turfs and you will not be disappointed.....the best all around tire for the average homeowner you can get on a CUT.
I 'spose there is room for preference with this issue, but I will go with Murf's, because he runs a bunch of different equipment, with a bunch of different operators in a bunch of different conditions and he finds turfs win the day....every day. Good 'nuf for me.
Brian ....
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| Paladin
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 81 Eastern Pennsylvania
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2008-09-16 156688
I am putting turfs on the L3010 that I bought used three years ago. I have ags and I can't live with the amount of damage that they do to the lawn. The situation gets worse with a weight box on the back and the FEL on the front. With ags, there is almost no time (except when the ground is frozen) that I am not chewing up the lawn. I could have bought R4's, but I reasoned "why go half way?". ....
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| cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
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2008-09-16 156689
There is a reason they make different kinds of tires :) we all want something different. I can imagine those ag tires did a number on the lawn. The R4 have worked out great for me, if it is really wet I need to use caution when I turn but otherwise not an issue. The turf do ride a bit better, smaller diameter rim and a lot more sidewall to bounce on. ....
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| kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2008-09-16 156690
Cutter is right, our tractor R4s originally. They lost traction in every situation imaginable in our soil conditions so the dealer swapped with Ag tires, which have been ideal for our use. Of course we don't mow... I'd be curious to try turfs, but not curious enough to spend the money for an experiment that may not work. ....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2008-09-16 156692
Turf or R-4? Neither!
Run a tape measure around your OEM tire and go buy a similar sized M&S SUV Radial.
My radial M&S's get so much traction that I usually cannot get the tires to spin when I push the loader into a pile of dirt.
Instead of getting tire spin, the engine lugs down and those tires just dig in.
Needless to say, they are great on the lawn and second to none for snow plowing. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2008-09-16 156695
BTW, did I mention that the R-4's ride like they are solid rubber?
The radials soak up most of the bumps. My back loves it and it is worth the extra cost. ....
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| ACS035
Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 5 Casco, Michigan
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2008-09-16 156703
Thanks again to everyone for the great information. Looks like I'll be getting the B2920 and I think the turfs would suit me best. I'll use this tractor for landscaping and mowing for the most part, so for the sake of my back (thanks for the reminder DRankin) I think it's what would work best for me. Probably won't get the radials anytime soon, we'll see how the turfs work out. ....
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| Justus
Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 179 Justus, Pa.
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2008-09-17 156723
I have a New Holland TC 33D. I have the turf tires on it and I have no problem on the grass or in the snow, but, if I was getting new tires I'd go the route Mark did with the radials. The problem I do have is that with the FEL on and weight in the bucket, the front tires tend to flatten out, especially if I don't have my back blade on. If I remember correctly from an earlier post by Mark on this, the radials had a stiffer sidewall and less prone to do that. Mark, correct me if I'm wrong. Steve ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2008-09-18 156739
Steve, first a clarification: I use standard turfs on the front and the M&S Radials on the rear.
I had the same problem with my original front turf tires flattening out under heavy loads.
At the same time I was getting the notion that my my rear tires were too big and had too much 'overdrive' reducing the power I needed in low range.
Solution: I reduced the tires sizes front and rear. These are the tire in the picture above.
The smaller turfs I put on the front handle more weight by virtue of a having a shorter, therefore stiffer, sidewall. They do not flatten out or try to roll off the bead on tight turns under big loads.
Downside: My transport speed went from about 13 mph to about 11 mph, but I can live with that.
....
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| Justus
Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 179 Justus, Pa.
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2008-09-18 156742
OK, Mark, I got it now. Thanks! Steve ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-09-18 156745
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Unless you're like me and drive the tractor into town for coffee and a couple of gallons of diesel I doubt you'd even be able to notice a difference of 2mph.....
Hey, Kubota put a stereo, cruise control and HVAC on it, so the dog & I are gonna drive it around!!! LOL
He likes the big windows. ;)
Best of luck. ....
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