Loader Leakdown: John Deere Review  -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum and Review Loader Leakdown: John Deere Review -- John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum

  parts   |   manuals   |   discussion   |   photos   |   podcast   |   reviews   |   specs   |   dealers   |   classifieds   |   contact   |   faq   |   myProfile   |   home          Login Now | Sign Up


FAQ:   What is a tractor?

Forum Index
New As Posted | Active Subjects



www.emerichsales.com - New & Used Equipment
          View Tractors For Sale!


www.partsbynet.com - Lawn and Garden Equipment Parts


Bernardsville Landscape Lighting
Click to Post a New Message!

Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > John Deere Review Forum

Page [ 1 ] | 2 | 3 | | Next >>
Reply | Pop Up Window Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo
 07-22-2002, 21:09 Post: 40591
matt4200jd



Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Indiana
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4

3
Filter by User
 Loader Leakdown

Anyone got a good idea of what normal leakdown should be for a 4200 with a 420 loader? Mine seams to go down faster than I thought it should for a 2000 machine with about 150 hrs. I got the acceptance spec from my dealer. It says that it shouldn't leak down at the cylinder rod more than 5.9 inches/hour. To me that would be a LOT. I measured mine and it went down about 1.5 inches/hour while sitting with an empty bucket. I was using it the other day for kind of a scafold with my homeade fork attachment with a pallet on it. It dropped about a foot at the forks in about 30 minutes. Can anyone give me some feed back on what their tractor is doing??? Thanks in advance!






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 07-23-2002, 06:15 Post: 40596
Art White



View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Waterville New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 6834

2
Filter by User
 Loader Leakdown

Matt I live on both sides of the fence so to speak and I would be back at the dealer's door. The valve on the tractor is what is causing your problem and no, you are not alone as every tractor out there can have the same problem and many do just not as severe. For your drop as a dealer I would be changing it. I often have customers in with far less drop than what you have and it is not a easy problem to deal with as the new valve might be better or worse. Everyone I have changed to date has been better.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 07-23-2002, 07:08 Post: 40601
TomG

TP Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5406

7
Filter by User
 Loader Leakdown

Guess I'm lucky. Mine is a mid-80's tractor and the loader has been on a long while. There's still very little leak-down.

The safety of using a loader for scaffolding might be thought about. However, if that's a use then any leak down probably is undesirable. If the lift cylinder hoses connect to the loader valve with quick-connects, then disconnecting the lift cylinder hoses probably would stop most of the leak-down—assuming that the valve is the major source of leak-down and that the quick-connects don’t leak.

I'm with Art, I'd probably see what the dealer will do.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 07-23-2002, 08:44 Post: 40603
DRankin



View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5105

2
Filter by User
 Loader Leakdown

I have a 4100. In the winter, when the nights get below freezing and the days are just above, I can leave the bucket (unloaded) up for a couple of days with no discernable movement. In the heat of the summer it will drift down and take most of the day to do it. If there is a load in the bucket on a hot day you can actually watch it drift down. All of this assumes the engine is not running. I have not seen any drift with the engine operating. Also my 410 loader will leak down on the dump circuit if left loaded. My lift cylinders are about 18 inches long. So if the max spec is 6 inches in 30 minutes, then we are talking about six feet (!!) of bucket movement in 90 minutes as normal.






Link:   Click Here 

Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 07-23-2002, 21:15 Post: 40617
matt4200jd



Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Indiana
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4

3
Filter by User
 Loader Leakdown

TomG, great idea!
I think I'll disconnect the loader at the quick connects and see if it leaks down and if so, how fast. Maybe this will give me an indication on what the problem really is. Thanks!






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 07-23-2002, 21:35 Post: 40618
DRankin



View my Photos

View my Photos  Pics
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5105

2
Filter by User
 Loader Leakdown

Check the web address on my post above, it has directions on how to do the test you are comtemplating.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 07-25-2002, 21:06 Post: 40678
matt4200jd



Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Indiana
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4

3
Filter by User
 Loader Leakdown

Well today I disconnected the lift cylinders at the quick connects and then lifted a little weight by curling the bucket. The lift cylinders didn't move at all. That tells me that the leak is in the valve. I'll contact the dealer tomorrow and see what he says about it.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 07-26-2002, 07:13 Post: 40684
TomG

TP Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5406

7
Filter by User
 Loader Leakdown

Guess it's good to have the thing figured out even if the problem remains. You perhaps know that if the lift lines were removed with the bucket up the lines may have enough pressure in them so they won't seat easily in the female fitting when they're reconnected. Sometimes the ball in the end of the male fitting has to be depressed by wrapping a rag around the fitting to catch oil and manually depressing the ball against a hard surface. The same thing can happen if the lines were disconnected on a cool day and reconnected on a hot day.

A couple of day ago, I stepped on the return hose for my 3ph hoe while I was climbing into the seat and the quick-connect fitting quick-disconnected. The engine was running and I didn't notice the change in sound until I had operated several controls. Well, I managed to pressurize the hoe hoses very. Not only could I not reconnect the return hose, I couldn’t even disconnect the feed hose. No way the return line was going back into the female fitting. No way that ball was going to depress, and with a couple of ordinary wrenches, no way the fitting was going to loosen. I finally clamped a vice grip on the fitting, laid the vice grip handles on a footrest with the fitting ball pointed up. I placed a rag on the ball and a 2" x 6" stub across the ball and then whacked the board with a 3-lbs. hammer. Got a small squirt of oil and had to whack it about a dozen times to release enough pressure to reconnect the line. If you haven't heard of this kind of thing, it might be helpful.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 08-20-2002, 21:37 Post: 41442
BrentB



Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Illinois
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 21

5
Filter by User
 Loader Leakdown

Yesterday the boom cylinders on my 420 loader on 4200 deere started drifting after doing some heavy breakout work. I've been reading and thinking about the tests that people were trying in order to determine if it was the cylinder or the valve, and have some comments to make.

1. Disconnecting the lift cylinder quick connects and lifting the tractor up with the bucket is not a good test, assuming the leak is internal (piston seals). The reason is that the volume of oil on the cap end is larger than that on the rod end. Let's say that the sum of the oil on both sides equals 200 cubic inches. There is one and only one cylinder stroke that contains this amount of oil. If the rod is retracted inwards one inch, then oil equal to 1 inch of the rod volume must be subtracted from the sum of the oil. Since there is no oil added or lost to the cylinder and lines, the cylinder is locked. This ignores the slight oil compressiblilty. I believe that the cylinder could be extended because a vacuum can be created (cavitation).

2. I switched the bucket tilt and loader lift quick connects at the valve and checked for drift. This should work because each valve section is independent. It is unlikely that both are leaking!

3. I like Deeres suggestion of unhooking the cylinder, but it would be smarter to either pull the rod end pins, or perhaps take off the bucket, and power the lift arms down ove an embankment. I don't like thinking about the loader up in the air while removing hoses.

4. I find it annoying that these cylinder are leaking in the first place. I bet I don't have 10 hours of loader time on the tractor in 2 years. I looked at the schematic and there are no line reliefs, so I wonder if I overpressured the cylinder via the bucket cylinder, or pushing against the pile.

Thanks for listening to me rant and rave.
Regards,
Brent






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

 08-21-2002, 08:37 Post: 41460
TomG

TP Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5406

7
Filter by User
 Loader Leakdown

Brent: I'm always trying to learn something. I thought that leaving the bucket up with a load in it and disconnecting the quick connects would be a decent test for oil leaking past the piston seals. I figured the only place for oil to go is either from one side of the cylinder to the other or out around fittings where it could be seen. Cavitation would be an issue, but it occurs mostly when dumping a heavy load with loaders that lack a fast-dump feature.

As noted, leaving buckets up even without loads is a safety issue and shouldn't be done without precautions. I'd never try to loosen fittings on a cylinder hose with the bucket raised. The bucket could drop like a rock. At minimum, oil on the lift-side lines is going to be under high-pressure. The fittings probably wouldn't loosen easily but might give a squirt of high-pressure oil if they did.

It's possible there are no pressure-relief valves, but my impression is that many valve assemblies contain pressure-relief valves to guard against load shocks when the control valve is closed. I'm not certain, but I think these relief valves dump into the low-pressure return galley on power-beyond valve assemblies. Typically valves for load shocks are set for over 3,000 lbs. while most system relief valves are just over 2,000 lbs.

I think that many valve assemblies also contain relief valves in their inlet sections for setting a system relief pressure or setting a lower pressure for one piece of equipment. These valves also can be used on PTO pump equipment that may not have a system relief valve similar to a tractor's pump. I think most inlet sections also have a check valve.

I'm assuming that the tractor's loader valve is a power-beyond type or was otherwise properly plumbed. Power-beyond prevents damage to a valve assembly if a downstream device such as a 3ph and loader are operated simultaneously. Other than that, I'd expect that the loader is sort of designed to protect itself but maybe somebody who doesn't have to rely so much on impressions will respond.






Reply to PostReply | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo




Bookmarks: Digg It | Del.icio.us | Technorati | Furl | Stumble This

Reply | Pop Up Window Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


Page [ 1 ] | 2 | 3 | | Next >>

Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > John Deere Review Forum

Thread 40591 Filter by Poster:
Art White 2 | Bob in Mich 2 | Bob in Mich. 1 | BrentB 5 | DRankin 2 | matt4200jd 3 | MRETHICS 1 | Peters 1 | Ted@Abbeywoods, LLC 1 | TomG 7 | WallyB 1 |




Most Viewed

+ John Deere 2210 Backhoe Review
+ John Deere vs Kubota Compact Tractors
+ John Deere 790 fuel shut-off solenoid failing???
+ John Deere low viscosity HY GARD
+ John Deere JD 4100 Wiring diagram
+ JD 790 or Kubota L3000DT
+ Should I buy a John Deere 4105???
+ John Deere 4300 turns over but won't start
+ John Deere 455 garden tractor
+ Oil Change for Diesel Tractor

Most Discussion

+ John Deere 4300 scuffing......
+ Possible Solution To The 4000
+ Dealer out to lunch
+ Just got my new JD 4410 - Prob
+ Hello Green, Goodbye Orange
+ Receiver hitch for iMatch
+ 4300 wheel bolt problems
+ 4000 Ten Series 50 hour break
+ Don't buy JD compact tractors.
+ Oil Change for Diesel Tractor

Newest Topics

+ John Deere 4100 gear 3 point not workin
+ 2000 John Deer Gator 4 X2
+ Mini Excavator SY20C - Small Body with Big Power
+ John Deer 1070 starting problem
+ John Deere 990
+ Tractors R Us
+ john deere 4100 with 410 loader hydraulic problem
+ John Deere 2032R Buying advice
+ John Deere 2010 loss of hydraulics
+ L110 John Deer Tractor gas smell













Turbochargers for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Cab Glass for Tractors and Industrial Machines

Alternators for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Radiators for Tractors and Industrial Machines

Driveline Components for Tractors and Industrial Machines
Starter Motors for Tractors and Industrial Machines