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 07-09-2005, 17:06 Post: 113210
kenm2095



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 4410 Operational Problems

In April of 2004 I purchased a 4410 4WD hydro with 430 loader and two sets of rear wheel weights. The unit now has about 85 hours. The tractor, over two days and 1.5 hours of use, has done two really scary things.

FirstProblem:
The drivers left rear wheel has lifted into the air about 12 inches while the other three tires have remained on the ground. This happened three times. The first two times was with a full and balanced bucket of dirt with some rock. The first time I was coming off of a 4 inch concrete slab at an angle to the left, and the second time the ground had a minor slope to the right, but was even. The third time was with a 25% load in the right corner of the bucket, this time only dirt. Again, here the ground had a minor slope to the right, but was even. Immediately prior to these events, I had been using the diff-lock while filling the bucket. I had been taking this same path throughout the day with even heavier loads with no problems.

Second Problem:
While doing arena work (Cruise set at medium speed range setting) about 6 feet off of the rail, the tractor made an immediate right turn running into an arena post with the bucket. This was on dead level ground with the bucket empty and lowered. There was no time to even get to the brakes. The result was the bucket is worthless as the right corner is pushed back about 5 inches and the driver got banged-up in the process.

Im sure the dealer would fix it, if they could find what is wrong, but they have had it for about 2 weeks and cannot duplicate the behavior or find a presumed cause. They have even had the regional guys in the loop. I have driven tractors with loaders and skid-steers for 12 years. I am always pretty cautious, so I dont think this is user error. This really has me (And the dealer) baffled.

Any thoughts?






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 07-09-2005, 22:00 Post: 113212
denwood



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 4410 Operational Problems

I can tell you from experience that wheel weights just don't cut it. My friend has a NH TC29 with 3 sets of weights and his tractor does the same thing constantly if there are no rear implements. I have liquid fill on my JD4300 and it has yet to do it with max loads and no rear implement. The front axle is a pivot and offers no stabiltiy until you reach the limit of axle ocillation which is somewhere close to having the rear wheel 12 inches off the ground, not a good feeling. It is as if you just have a single wheel right in the center of the front end until you have reached max ocillation. The rear is what keeps you stable in most instances, and to do that you need weight.
As far as your other problem, here are my guesses. The driver lied to you and had an accident, you have a son like the one in "the omen", or you live in the Bermuda triangle.






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 07-09-2005, 22:14 Post: 113213
DK35vince



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 4410 Operational Problems

You need more weight on the back of that machine to make it more stable.
Put something heavy on the 3 point, like a box blade or a weight box. You will notice a huge differance in stability when doing loader work.
As far as the second problem ???






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 07-09-2005, 22:34 Post: 113215
ncrunch32



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 4410 Operational Problems

I was just using back blade today with jd4310 and I was off the ground with rear wheel a number of times. This is just a matter of physics - you have a center of gravity and you have to be careful. Go slow and when a real wheel lifts up, lift your 3 pt hitch, or lower your bucket.






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 07-09-2005, 22:42 Post: 113216
kwschumm



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 4410 Operational Problems

Are your rear tires loaded? Make sure the ballast requirements are followed. The manual says that loaded rear tires are mandatory with a loader on the 4410.






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 07-09-2005, 23:20 Post: 113217
Chief



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 4410 Operational Problems

kenm2095, I can tell your first hand that your machine is GROSSLY under ballasted. You must fill the rear tires as has already been mentioned and either get a rear weight bucket or add a third tire weight to each tire to provide adequate ballast weight for your machine.

Your operator is operating the machine FAR too fast if something like that occured. The dangerously underballasted machine more than likely contributed to this the tractor turning out of control. With most of the weight biasd toward the front axle and tires; the rear tires are prone to loosing traction without warning. Traveling at even a moderate rate of speed with so much weight on the front of the machine easily sets up the scenario of throwing the machine's weight to one side or another on the rear axle. This could account for the sudden steering out of control in my opinion.

If your operator was going fast enough to put a 5 inch dent in the cutting edge of the bucket, he was operating the machine ENTIRELY too fast and you should be looking for a new operator. Sounds like the operator was not wearing his or her seat belt and yet even more reason to fire them.

I have owned my 4410 for almost 3 years and NEVER had ANY such occurances. My rear tires are filled and I have about 350 lbs. of rear ballast on the 3 pt. hitch. I have operated my 4410 in C range at full throttle and speed during trasport on hard surface roads here at the ranch and not had such occurances take place.

I would suggest you have the rental upgrade kit installed to prevent operators from abusing and operating your machine in excess of their or the machines limits.






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 07-10-2005, 06:55 Post: 113220
cj2002b



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 4410 Operational Problems

I'll go ahead and add my 2cents. Ballasting the tires is a must. Tried every amount of weight possible on my 3pt and was constantly having tires off the ground. These days I have filled tires and a 500lbs. lead block on the 3pt when I'm not carrying an implement. No problems even when working with loaded buckets on steep grades.

QUESTION: Did you notice any damage to your loader? I've always wondered about the ability of the loader to handle any type of impact. I'm used to regular loaders, backhoes, etc. and thought there just wasn't enough steel to make the loader frames strong enough.






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 07-10-2005, 15:07 Post: 113230
kenm2095



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 4410 Operational Problems

Denwood,
DK35vince,
ncrunch32,
kwschumm,
2ndHandLion
cj2002b,

Thanks one and all for the ballast recommendations! The rear tires are not filled at this time, but will be in the very near future. Before the second problem occured, I had rationalized the first as a loading / balancing related issue.

-----------

Would the ballast be an explainable cause of the second problem? Are the rest of you in agreement with 2ndHandLion?

I was also the driver at the time of the second event. At the time, the tractor had been moving in a straight path for about 40 feet using a 5 foot set of s-tines which only penetrate the hard ground about 4-5 inches or so. This was the fourth pass of the arena, so things were fairly loosened up. The bucket was definetly empty, in a lowered position and tilted up. The one thing I left our of my original posting was that there was a rut made by the right rear tire which ran about 6 feet and curving slightly to the right. I realize this sounds like I applied only a right brake, but I did not. The brake pedals have "connected" since I got the tractor.

I have used the tractor in paddock work, driven the tractor on the dirt subdivision roads in range C, and done substantial snow removal on our driveway and never had a hint of the second problem.

-----------

As for the well being of the loader, that is yet to be determined. The very corner of the bucket is what hit the post and the 5 inch dent was actually a buckle in the side wall of the bucket, not the front cutting edge.

Thanks again for all of your input!






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 07-10-2005, 16:21 Post: 113231
DK35vince



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 4410 Operational Problems

Uncouple your brake peddles and check their adjustment. Each peddle should stop and apply brake at the same time. If one brake is adjusted up tighter than the other it could cause the machine to want to turn when the brakes are applied.
Once they are set the same, recouple the peddles.
Worth checking out at least.






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 07-10-2005, 17:26 Post: 113235
kwschumm



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I think Vince has the right idea. Either that or a piece of debris jammed under one of the brake linkages. Given your description of the right wheel rut it does sound like two separate problems. Your first problem clearly seems to be lack of sufficient ballast.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > John Deere Review Forum

Thread 113210 Filter by Poster:
Chief 1 | cj2002b 1 | denwood 2 | DK35vince 2 | Iowafun 1 | kenm2095 2 | kwschumm 2 | ncrunch32 1 |




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