Go BottomCub Cadet fuel injection
 | Terrie
Join Date: Posts: 1 
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2002-09-29 43080
On a Cub Cadet 7275 3 cyl. diesel I have bled air from the fuel lines up to the fuel injection pump. There is no fuel coming from the fuel injection pump to the injectors. Is there something else that needs to be drained, bled or checked? This was not from running out of fuel, the tractor revved up then stopped, then it started again and ran. The next time I went to start it it would not start.
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York 
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2002-09-30 43105
Diesels rev-up when running out of fuel. They may run after running out of fuel and you bleed everything out, and several minutes later, again struggle to run. Did you shut off the tractor when it was running and then wouldn't start and how long did you run it then. ....
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| Ted@Abbeywoods, LLC
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-09-30 43125
Dear Terrie, please don't be offended if I ask some questions that you may think dumb.
1) Did you replace your fuel filter?
2) If yes did you bleed correctly by shutting off the fuel shut-off valve? Remove the fuel cup after cleaning around the retainer? Clean inside the cup before installing new o-ring and fuel filter? Did you open the fuel shut-off valve? If you did all of this, then you went on to:
2) Remove air from the line by making sure there is fuel in the tank, and with the valve open, loosen the number one (the screw on the left of the valve body) air vent screw until bubbles stop and only fuel flows. Close No 1 vent screw, and open No 2 air vent screw (the one on the right of the valve body) until bubbles stop and only fuel flows, close the No 2 vent screw. Then did you crack open the air vent screw on the fuel injector pump until bubbles stop and only fuel flows while the key switch is in the "on" position? Did you do this in this order only?
If you followed this procedure and this didn't work then check for a blown fuse by checking the fuses individually in the fuse block located to the lower left of the steering wheel while seated looking forward. Check the number four fuse (bottom 20amp) first. If there isn't a blown fuse, turn the key to "on" and listen for the fuel pump. The fuel pump is located under the right side of the fuel tank, it is a shiny disk shaped pump with the fuel lines attached. If you don't hear the faint hum and clicking noise I suspect the fuel pump has gone bad and needs to be replaced.
Try these things first and if it is a no go then write again and I'll get into my shop manual and try to help some more. Chances are you need to install a fresh fuel filter and when you bled your system you didn't follow procedure. Good luck! ....
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| TERRIE
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-10-30 44431
Ted,
We followed your instructions. Checked the fuses and made sure the fuel tank was filled. The fuel pump is running/pumping. There is fuel coming out of the air vent screw on the fuel injection block. But there is no fuel going up to the injectors. Is there anything else we can check out? Thanks Terrie ....
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| Ted@Abbeywoods, LLC
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-10-30 44451
Hi Terrie, well it seems we are headed into the home stretch as far as this problem goes. I'm sorry if I missed your other posts but this time of year is a very busy time for landscapers in New England. Now on to the problem, and we are going to chase the fuel right up the pipes, literally.
Your engine is equipped with the Bosch M type injection pump model ND-PFR3M, you'll need to know this should you end up at the point where I tell you to find a Bosch service center - but we have a few tricks left before we get to that point. This is going to be a long post, folks, so don't get mad at me.
Fuel at the pump is where we pick up the trace. The next step should only be done if you have an average amount of mechanical experience. Read the entire post first to determine if this is a project you want to try or have a deaker do. YOU MUST NOT APPLY HEAVY HANDED FORCE, ONLY ENOUGH FORCE TO BREAK FREE PARTS OR MOVE THEM! YOU MUST HAVE A QUALITY SET OF METRIC WRENCHES, A HIGH QUALITY ADJUSTABLE WRENCH, A SET OF METRIC SOCKETS, a pair of needle nose pliers, and a good torque wrench. You'll need some plastic sandwich bags, some plastic electrical tape, some lint free rags, a very good light sorce, compressed air, and patience. If you don't have these items, don't attempt the fix I'm going to describe.
Degrease the engine around the injector pump and injectors. NEVER DO THIS WHILE THE ENGINE IS RUNNING! The Bosch injector pump has an aluminum housing with steel internal parts that, while in motion, will expand in harmony with each other through the heat range. When hot, if cold water hits the pump, the case most often will shrink before the steel internal parts do, causing pump failure. With the engine clean and dry, go on.
Rising from the pump are (3) three injection tubes that deliver fuel from the pump's metered delivery valves to the fuel injectors. We are not going to remove the pump, just yet, but we are going to see if fuel is reaching the injectors. You will see a metal strap that holds each of the tubes to keep them from vibrating. Don't monkey with the strap. Now locate the soft plastic hose that runs from each injector, this is the leak off hose. Make note of the tiny clips that hold the leak off hose(s)in place, gently use your needle nose pliers to back off the clips, then gently work the hose until it comes free of the injector. Place the hose and clips in one of the plastic bags and place them aside.
Using your metric open end wrench, and only enough force to break the nut free, loosen each nut that secures the tube to the injector, carefully! You may have to tap the wrench using a small ballpeen hammer. Take care to hold the wrench ON THE FLATS of the nut. Back off all of the nuts from the injectors, sliding them over the tubes down towards the injector pump to get them out of your way.
GENTLY PULL EACH TUBE AWAY FROM EACH INJECTOR BEING CAREFUL NOT TO CRIMP THE TUBE. PULL THEM BACK ONLY FAR ENOUGH TO CLEAR THE INJECTOR! GENTLY PUSH EACH TO THE SIDE TO CLEAR THE INJECTOR! Slip a plastic bag over each tube and seal using the plastic electrical tape. Have a helper crank the engine briefly while watching each bag. All three of the bags should fill with fuel. Look for dirt in the fuel!
If you see no fuel come from the tubes you have an injection pump failure. Even a pump that is badly out of time will deliver fuel. If it is the pump, I suspect that one or all three of the delivery valves are blocked, or broken. You can cleanthe delivery valves if you get new o-rings and gaskets from CC. Remove each delivery valve carefully after removing the delivery tubes from the pump, mark the order each valve is removed because you'll be reassembling them in reverse order from removal. Wrap the tube assembly in a clean lint free cloth after blowing low pressure air through each. Observe if any dirt comes out of the tubes. Place the tube assembly aside.
The delivery valve is comprised of (in order) the valve holder, o-ring, spring, gasket, and valve. Clean each part in clean fuel and dry completely using a lint free cloth. Reassemble to the pump using a new o-ring and gasket, and torque to between 29.5 and 37 ftlbs. NOTE: they have to be very dirty to keep fuel from passing, so if they are clean you know your pump needs to be replaced or repaired by a pro. Reassemble the delivery tubes, put new bags in place, crank engine, look for fuel in the bag. No fuel, you need to have your pump repaired by a pro. Send or take the pump and injectors to the repair shop, they will be calibrated together. Read on to learn how to re-install the injectors.
If you have fuel at the injectors but still can't run chances are you have plugged injectors, you are almost home free. Each injector has a retaining bolt, and on most models, a retaining clamp. Remove each bolt and clamp using the correct metric socket. Each injector has a flat machined on its body, place a metric wrench on the flat and gently rock the injector side to side until it comes out of its bore. Mark each one to ensure you return it to its original location. Place each in a plastic bag and take or send to the authorized repair shop. You don't have to remove the pump if you have a healthy flow from each tube, just have the injectors serviced. After the injectors have been serviced, reassemble torqueing each clamp bolt to between 11 and 15 ftlbs. You must use a new copper washer beneath each injector, you must be certain each injector goes back down all the way into its bore to seat prior to clamping. Attach the delivery tubes, torque to spec.'s, install the leak off hose(s), and start the engine. Listen to and observe each injector to be sure they are not leaking compression. A leaking injector will make a whistling, sucking sound and will pull in oil when dripped around it. If this happens you haven't seated the injector, remove its clamp, wiggle injector while pushing down on it hard, reclamp, and try again.
IF YOU HAD A DAMAGED PUMP OR PLUGGED INJECTORS YOU MUST TRY TO FIND OUT WHY! BAD FUEL, RUNNING THE ENGINE AT LOW RPM, NOT USING THE GLOW PLUGS TO START, BAD ENGINE CLEANING PRACTICES, CAN ALL LEAD TO FAILURE. I WOULDN'T RULE OUT "THE OLD DIRT IN THE TANK TRICK," A FAVORITE OF BAD KIDS EVERYWHERE. GO LUCK. Let us know what you do.
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-10-31 44476
Good work Ted! Heroic effort and pretty readable besides.
I think that anybody contemplating this type of work should get a repair manual just to make sure that all procedures are understood or at least followed. However, a repair manual isn't going to provide the how to and the 'gently warnings' given here.
Gently is especially important when loosening injector fittings. I believe there is potential for high-pressure fuel in injector lines even when a tractor isn't running. Serious injuries and medical conditions can result.
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| Terrie
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-10-31 44492
Ted,
Thanks for the help. I will try this as soon as time permits. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks again, Terrie ....
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| Ted@Abbeywoods, LLC
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-10-31 44503
Thanks Tom for the kind words, it was surprising it came out the way it did because I am beat from working my two jobs. Still, I chuckle at "GO LUCK," I was too pooped to notice the missing "OD!" Terrie, go slow with this, wear eye protection, and you'll do OK. Tom has given good advice about the manual, unfortunately, the one CC sells is just about worthless if you have no automotive experience behind you. I try to get back here to help when I can but sometimes my schedule is just too hectic. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-11-01 44515
I think that's true in general about repair manuals. At least the factory ones aren't very instructional. I don't know if after-market manuals like IT are more instructional, but I did hear a story about somebody who was having an electrical problem and bought an after-market manual only to find that it didn't have a wiring diagram.
Factory manuals are good at giving disassembly and repair procedures as well as adjustment specs. They also are pretty good at giving exploded parts diagrams but my parts manual is much better. However, they are less good at helping a typical owner figure out which procedure to use or what to repair. Parts diagrams are useful and I recall somebody with a manual who tackled a relief valve. It came apart in a flock of small parts and he didn't know how it went back together. His first stab at reassembly wasn't right.
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