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 | wigglybridge
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 82 Vermont 
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2004-02-18 77199
SO, before y'all helped me get my chains...
... I managed to pull a dumbo, and slid sideways into one of my buildings, stripping out a zerk fitting.
There wasn't much 'meat' left to get it back in, but I tried re-tapping it. Unfortunately, the part I was tapping had been bent slightly and I didn't know the layout inside, and encountered another part with the tap. Didn't cause any damage, but didn't tap adequately either. Tried again at the right angle, but now there's not enough meat to hold.
I would guess I'm not the first guy on earth who's done this -- is there some kind of standard repair? Knowing zero, my imagination is thinking some kind of sleeve of soft material that a new zerk would basically "self-tap", expanding the material into the hole at the same time.
Any suggestions?
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4299 Southwest MiddleTennessee 
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2004-02-18 77200
Not sure if I am following your description but it sounds to me like you broke off the zirk fitting part protruding out of the treaded hole. Are you sure you got all of the zirk fitting removed? If not you may need to use and easy-out to remove the threaded sleeve of the zirk that may still be broken off inside the hole. If the threads were damaged; you might try cleaning them up with a tap. ....
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 | shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin 
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2004-02-18 77201
If you did just strip out the threads you can usually find a zerk with larger thread diameter. Auto parts stores or tractor supply would have them. ....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2004-02-18 77203
I am trying to imagine which grease fitting you wanged on a 4110..... they are all pretty well protected.
Was it on the loader? ....
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 | ScooterMagee
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 201 Nebraska
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2004-02-18 77204
Zerks are available in several sizes. The common ones are 1/8" NPT and 1/4" NPT, these require a pipe tapped (tapered threaded) hole. There are also 1/4"-28, 5/16"-24 and 3/8"-24, these have straight threads and would require a standard tapped hole. Any or all of these should be available at auto parts stores, farm stores or a fastener supplier. ....
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| wigglybridge
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 82 Vermont
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2004-02-18 77206
Chief, the fitting pulled out completely and cleanly, in fact I have it and it's like new, the threads on it still have some paint on them (not sure WHY they were painted the same color as the blower).
Unfortunately, the threads on the part I'm trying to tap INTO are all buggered now.
Magnum, thanks for the tip -- my hardware store only had zerks about the same size in US and metric. I'll check a few auto stores this morning.
....
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| wigglybridge
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 82 Vermont
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2004-02-18 77209
DR, sorry I wasn't clear, it was the *blower* I snagged on the building and took the fitting out of.
Scooter, thanks for the dimension info! Part of my problem then is that the hardware I took the zerk into didn't know this. It is now obvious that it was the NPT type, tapered thread. They gave me a 1/4-28 tap.
Guess I'll see if I can get a few of the sizes at the auto store. Thanks again! ....
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 | AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2004-02-18 77210
You still have a few options.
If you cannot retap the threads due to metal being stripped out, then there are also zerks that will drive into straight holes with a hammer.
Another option would be to clean the grease out of the remaining threads and use a good epoxy like JB Weld to bond the original zerk back into place. You can always get the zerk out by fracturing the epoxy or by heating it till the epoxy softens.
If you still have some threads and the zerk just won't tighten in the hole, there are some Loctite retaining compounds that will fill gaps. These will work if you know how to use them, but I would probably prefer the epoxy because it is easier to control where it goes. (and keep it out of the bearing.)
If the location is at a place where you can weld, you can make a little flat plate and weld it over the stripped out hole. The plate would have a hole tapped in it for a smaller size zerk. You can protect the threads during welding with carbon paste, antispatter spray, or other chemicals. Make sure that the bearing housing is disassembled and clean before you weld on the new metal plate. (I have made these before in the form of little cups with the zerk protected down inside. That way, the zerk will not be hit again.) ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2004-02-18 77211
Two clues: Painted and intact. The paint most likely came from seepage when the item was painted.
If the is room for paint to seep around the threads, it was never securely in place to start with..... and the intact nature of the fitting goes to support that conclusion also.
I am betting the hole was oversized to start with ( or the zerk was undersized). Is it possible to disassemble the part in question?
Sometimes it is easier to drill a new hole and start all over again with parts that have known dimensions. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-02-18 77213
As Dr mentioned, if the zerk was in the carrier bearing on the side of the unit it will come off easily. In fact it might be less grief to replace the end plate than to try fiddling around with it for long.
Other than that the JB Weld sounds like the best bet as long as it's warm enough for it to setup properly.
I have also had good luck in the past with lining a stripped zerk hole with silver solder, which is MUCH harder than normal lead solder, and then chasing the threads out with a 4 way zerk tool. If it is in a bearing though you will need to disassemble it so that you don't melt the seals.
Best of luck.
Best of luck. ....
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 | blizzard
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 282 Central Maine
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2004-02-18 77216
WigglyB,
I'm curious about the exact location of the fitting. Can you post a picture? ( add it as #5 and you won't mess up the previous ones)
Also who is the mfg. of your blower? Many are re-branded, and my search has been unsuccessful.
Try to keep any metal out of the grease. If you fill the hole completely with grease most of the threadings should be forced out as the tap goes in.
Disassembly and repair in a heated environment usually makes for a better job, as well as a more comfortable one. All the repair epoxy I know of needs near room temps to harden properly.
You're not supposed to be 'sliding into' with your new chains :)
bliz
Info in Adobe Acrobat format at this link: ....
Link: Fittings_Info
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| wigglybridge
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 82 Vermont
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2004-02-18 77220
Hey, thanks everyone for the continued hand-holding!
I just got back from town, and the auto parts/machine shop/chainsaw/etc place that seems to know the most about this, the guy said if it were him, he'd do the epoxy. He had the next step up in fittings but thought it was a big jump. He confirmed it's a pipe thread.
Don't know where I'm gonna get anything like room temperatures, though! It is in the 30's today, but my garage is unheated. Maybe I can get away with it for awhile until an unusually warm day? Or how about if I park facing the sun? Actually, the piece has been in sun for most of the day. Should get the metal up to room temps, I'd think.
Bliz, the accident happened before the chains! The mfg is Rad Technologies, in Quebec -- radinter.com. Model B54, 54" blower. Thanks for the tip on keeping the metal out of the grease -- I was freaked about that, but as you said, with enough grease in there it seems to force most of the filings back out through the tap.
So I guess what I'll try next is cleaning the hole and existing zerk with alcohol and then epoxy in the sun. Hmm, maybe I'll post a pic first... ....
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| blizzard
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 282 Central Maine
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2004-02-18 77223
WB,
I don't think alcohol will do the job. You might blast it clean with WD-40 and finish up with the CEO's acetone based nail polish remover and Q-tips. A heat gun, hair dryer, even an air popcorn popper can warm things up. Just don't get shocked.
bliz ....
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| wigglybridge
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 82 Vermont
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2004-02-18 77224
Ok, I took some photos and posted them:
- a closeup of the flange (can't see in the photo that the edge where the zerk is got bent a bit, not too bad)
- an overall shot of the blower with the flange near the center
- a back shot of how it fits after all the linkage changes yesterday ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-02-18 77225
I've had good results using an infrared heat bulb, the kind used to keep animals warm in a barn.
Shine it straight on the subject part for while until it is warm to the touch, apply the epoxy then quickly put the light back. Even in relatively low temps. it will heat whatever it shines on, if you can get it into a garage or something to keep it out of the wind it will help the process.
As I mentioned earlier, the best thing is if you can disassemble the bearing and take the part inside. Usually the bearing is just held in place by a couple of small bolts and it slips right off.
Best of luck. ....
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| shortmagnum
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 848 Wisconsin
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2004-02-18 77226
Lacquer thinner is the strongest grease remover I've ever found. I needed to JB Weld a hole in an oil pan from below and it completely dried the contact surface. It hasn't leaked a drop in five years.
Dave ....
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| wigglybridge
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 82 Vermont
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2004-02-18 77227
I should have said in pic 6 that the flange is near the *bottom* center.
Murph, the bearing housing actually sits inside this flange, and I can't quite dope out whether if I remove the flange everything else is going to come with it or not! If not, that would indeed be the ideal way to go, it's just on there with 3 nuts that go on carriage bolts. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-02-18 77228
As I suspected, that is a 'cap bearing', if you undo those 3 nuts the outboard retaining plate, the subject of all this fun, should just fall off into your hand.
These bearings are 3 part units. Basically it is just 2 identical, inside & outside, plates with a regular bearing sandwiched between them. What you hit with the tap is the bearing itself.
Let's see how my keyboard drafting is today, it should look like this; [o] where [ & ] are the plates and o is the bearing itself.
Best of luck. ....
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| blizzard
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 282 Central Maine
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2004-02-18 77229
Just looked at the RAD site (slooow with dialup). Seems to be a really rugged blower. I like the 24" fan, bet it moves a lot of snow. My 64" Pronovost Puma only has a 20" fan so it is slow when the snow is deeper than 12" or when blowing straight back. The worm drive chute rotator looks like a big improvement over the cable wind-up most commonly seen.
Pics look good. I see you have a lot of room now between the tires and chains. Also the chains are much more agressive on your R4's vs. my R1's. You must have a Digital Camera to post them so quickly. May I ask what model, as I am considering buying one.
Good Luck,
bliz
....
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| wigglybridge
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 82 Vermont
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2004-02-18 77231
So Murph, the flange will come off, but the bearings will stay there?
Bliz, yes, I was impressed with the fan size, especially for a relatively small blower. The fan blades are also wider than some other units I looked at.
My camera isn't anything special. I wrote image processing software for 25 years, starting in the 70s (!), but now in that field I'm quite happy to stay a generation or 2 back and buy cheap. I got it on eBay more than a year ago, it's a FUJIfilm FinePix 1300, native resolution is 1280x960. ....
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 | yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan 
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2004-02-18 77232
Before you go to far. There are straight pipe and (2) types of tapered pipe fittings in the 1/4-18 size. They have the same thread pitch. The 1/8-27 does not come in a straight pipe form. If you currently have a straight pipe fitting, you may be able to insert a tapered pipe fitting or retap the hole with tapered pipe tap. If you are hitting something (another component) in the bottom of this hole, suggest that you cut off some of the lead of the tap. Sometimes the tap will have a point and some imperfect threads. If you have one or two revolutions of good threads, you can remove the lead of the tap entirely and get a flat bottom tapped hole. In the process of tapping you will generate a chip. You should be making this chip in a string shape and be able to wipe it off or pick it out of the hole.
You may also be able to cut/grind off one or two threads of the grease zerk. I don't know if the zerk is bottoming out like the tap before the threads seat.
Another suggestion is to peen over the threaded hole using a hammer in an attempt to decrease the hole size allowing you to retap it. JB weld works sometimes, but it must be at room temperature and completely clean. Any grease present will make the joint fail.
Of the two different types of tapered fittings the PTF or flush type has a 7/8" taper per inch. The normal tapered pipe tap has 3/4" taper per inch. One or the other may drive in better. ....
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| AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
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2004-02-18 77236
I believe that there will be a similar flange on the inside, except with no zerk hole. As Murf said, if you take out the three bolts, the outer piece will just drop off in your hand. The bearing is clamped between the two flanges and this is a common way of mounting a ball bearing into a sheet metal frame.
If you have the flange off, then you have it made. You can use any of the repair techniques and the clearance will not be a problem.
If I had the part completely free, I would do the repair with metal. Peening the hole to somewhat close it up as mentioned is a good way to put metal back where the threads used to be. Then you can tap it with any proper tap that you have. (you could also silver solder or weld the hole to put metal back into it for threads.)
If you have to use the JB Weld, then you can clean the flange up nicely if it is free from the bearing and cure the epoxy in your wifes oven at about 150F. JB Weld generally takes 24 hours to cure, but at 150F, it cures in an hour or two.
That is how I would repair it, but those flanges are a fairly standard part on farm equipment and you might be able to show it to a good parts guy and he can match it to something in his inventory. I expect that a new flange is only going to cost a few bucks, so if you can find one, it might be worth the time to search.
....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2004-02-18 77238
Sorry Wiggley, domestic duties caused a little delay, yes the bearing SHOULD stay there, Murphy's Law not included, LOL.
As Mike mentioned this is a really common way of putting a bearing into thin steel peices and you might, as I mentioned, find another peice for little enough money to make your old one disposable.
Part of the problem, as you've already discovered, is that there isn't much 'meat' to tap with threads, so a little bump and out comes the zerk. A little bit of silver solder or braze each side gives a little more material to tap through.
If you have it off the easiest way is to forget the tap altogether. clean the part well, scuff it a little for 'traction' and put the zerk in, then just silver solder or braze it in place. Re-install and your done.
Best of luck. ....
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| wigglybridge
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 82 Vermont
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2004-02-18 77241
Thanks, guys!
I was finishing siding the barn extension I built to house the tractor while waiting to see what you all said. Glad I waited!
It's supposed to be 30's again tomorrow, so I'll try popping the flange off and see what I can do. What yooperpete said about the zerk bottoming out may be true even with the existing one, which is very short and tapered. Now that I look at it in that light, this all seems to make sense: zerk bottomed out, paint on threads, etc...
Anyway, with the flange off, I can do a lot more -- I like the idea of peening the hole a bit, too. If that doesn't work, I'll try either the epoxy or Murph's idea on silver solder, which I already have.
Thanks! I was depressed and had no clue this morning, now I've got a bunch of good alternatives. ....
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| wigglybridge
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 82 Vermont
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2004-02-18 77244
Just got an email back from the mfg:
Yes you can remove that flange without any probleme, the bearing is lock on the drive shaft with a locking collar.
Yippee! ....
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| wigglybridge
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 82 Vermont
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2004-02-20 77418
Murf was right on the money, I pulled the 3 nuts and the flange was just held on by suction of the grease behind it, came right off. Everything stayed where it shoulda, and I brought the part in to work on.
There wasn't enough metal left to try to re-tap it, and the tolerance behind the grease fitting was so tight that I opted to epoxy. Went to town and picked up some JBWeld, did it up yesterday and it's back on the tractor ready for tonight's storm.
Thanks AGAIN to everyone who poured out information on this, all of which either helped in the process... or will someday! ....
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 | jeff r
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 428 burton. michigan
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2004-03-11 79553
I think JB Weld is the most fantastic stuff ever invented. I just used it on a Rockwell Hardness Tester's 2000.00 dollar load cell that had a ball screw that backed out and buggered up some threads. Filled up the hole with Jb weld and retapped it and it has been running for over 2 years without backing out. fantastic. I also used it to "bed" the barrel of a .243 I have, and it also has worked flawlessly. I have used it to seal new hammer handles to hammer heads and it has perforemd flawlessly too. Can't say enough about that stuff. If you haven't got some go get some SOON. The sooner the better. ....
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