Go BottomTractor History Question
 | TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
|
2002-10-03 43287
I wonder what the relationship between the names McCormack, IH, Cub etc.
Last week I saw a poster for a rural festival. There was a kid on an old Cub. It said McCorrmack Cub on the side of the tractor. Yesterday, I saw a brand new bight red modern farm tractor on a transport flat bed. I think it said McCormack and something else on the tractor.
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| MRETHICS
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 190 Star City, Indiana 
|
2002-10-03 43289
TomG,
As far as the new McCormack compact and Utility tractors, I read an artical in Farm and Industry News magazine this summer making the anouncement.
I was a small blurb, and didn't give me much info. I failed to pursue it. (which is a bad thing, one needs to keep track of his competition)
Let me give you some info on it's origin. ( And I might ad, it's been a few years since I've studied the evolution of the mechanaztion of agriculture, so I appoligize in advance for being a little foggy)
The name got it's start with Cyrus McCormack when he patented his famous reaper.(In the late 1800's if my memory is correct). The invention of the reaper, made the harvest of large tracts of wheat possible. Couple this with the Invention of John Deere's steel plow, within the same few years, and suddenly, large scale farming in the midwest got a shot in the arm.
McCormack, mass produced his reaper, and through a series of events, opened a factory in Chicago Ill.
A few years later, his factory was in the headlines over a landmark labor dispute that rocked the country, resulting in an angry mob and the murder of key players in the company, and the hanging of union folks found guilty of the murder. The Govt. (I can't remeber if it was a mayor, a govenor, or the Pres. himself) stepped in and pardend some of the accused.
Due to the economic situation in the country at about that time, pre ww1, consolidations and buyouts were almost rampant.
Years later McCormack began marketing equipment under the name Inernational Harvester, but kept the McCormack name on the hoods for name recognition.
For years, International Harvester has been one step ahead of the wolves, only to be saved at the last minute, The invovement with Tennaco back in the late 1970's and the merger with Ford/NewHolland, and Fiat, more recently.
Thier resilliance is almost heroic.
I'll search for more info on the new McCormacks, and let you know. but I would guess it is another marketing strategy to ward off anti-trust problems in the Ford/NH/Fiat merger.
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| MRETHICS
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 190 Star City, Indiana
|
2002-10-03 43291
OK TomG, found what I was looking for.
Due to the aformentioned merger, 2 CaseIH facilities have been divested.
Doncaster England (C,CX,and,MXC tractors)and St. Dizier ,France(transmisions) both were sold to Lanadini SpA. Landini, along with the brick and morter,also purchased the tractor series, and the "McCormick" name.
Old tractor, new name, new company, new dealers(marketed through excisting Vermeer Dealers exclusivly)
Hope this answers your question. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
|
2002-10-04 43330
Thanks! That explains why the name McCormick seemed more familiar than just 'something to do with tractors.' I seem to recall that the labour thing rated a paragraph or two in Am History texts.
Curious how things work. Threat of anti-trust action (presumably in U.S.) produces two sales in Europe. Also curious how the name Landini has been popping up for a few years. I heard a comment that Landini was trying to establish a N.A. presence through Versatile that somehow got mixed up with the purchase of Versatile by Buhler and subsequent move from Winnipeg to Fargo (along with millions in incentive grants from the Manitoba government--another labour issue from the company's perspective). Seems like Landini finally got its N.A. presence.
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| MRETHICS
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 190 Star City, Indiana
|
2002-10-04 43339
Curious indeed.
Found some time, and a little more info last night.
Two of the three big players in the merger CaseIH and Ford/New Holland brought more into the merger than just equipment lines and Buildings. Huge debt. Fiatt it seems, garrenteed the debt for 5 years after the merger. I guess Fiatt is the only guy with any money.
The more I read on the subject, the more I was un- astounded. CaseIH was broke, Ford/New Holland was gonna be broke, if things didn't change. There wer other players involved, and they were in similar conditions.
Fiatt is the one with the gold, so I would expect in the future, they will make the rules in that organization.
You were right about Landini TomG. This got them into the N. American market.
Due to the merger, CaseIH and Ford/NewHollond found themselves with two competeing tractor lines. It makes sense to sell of some baggage. The line they have with Ford/ NH had much better market share. And couple that with CaseIH and Ford/NH marketing units already in place, and it's almost a no-brainer. All they needed was a buyer. And by my estmates, the sooner the better. I haven't seen any numbers yet, so I don't know how much debt was serviced from these sales.
One thing for sure, That McCormick name is still alive. Once again, saved from the wolves at almost the last possible second.
I wonder what 'ole Cyrus is thinking now?
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
|
2002-10-04 43344
If memory serves, Fiat bought Ford Tractor Div from Ford Motors (was New Holland already in Fiat?) and then a group within Fiat took the tractor division out of Fiat. Yikes, was that almost five years ago? If huge debt guarantees run out, I sort of wonder about cost cutting that might whack parts support from NH for my 1710. I think parts support for pre-62 Fords was scrapped a year or so ago. That’s a little more than just a curious thought. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
 Pics
|
2002-10-04 43348
Tom back at the beginning of ag the country had many different manufacturers. Many of them only built machines used in there area. Thru the years they were bought out by some of the bigger boys so to speak. Freight could not move a plow,tractor,combine from the east coast to the west coast in a week as we can today. McCormick was a conglomerate just like Deere and all the rest. Trying to expand he did change his name to cover some of his more important lines he was taking on as well as not to be just known for the reaper. At one time around the twenties there was over 120 tractor manufacturers alone. There were many plow manufacturers, reapers,and different systems built for the farmers in that area. These small companies are what built JD, Case, IH,White,Allis,Massey and Ford to New Holland. For Centuries it has been mergers and buyouts. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| MRETHICS
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 190 Star City, Indiana
|
2002-10-04 43355
Oops...sorry TomG didn't mean to alarm you.
The timeline you mentioned left some gaps in my mind, so I went back and re-read the article.
I mis informed you.
The timeline goes as follows, if my memory serves correct.
In about '87 Ford and Sperry New Holland had a wedding, And about two years later addopted a child named Versital. In 1990 Ford/NewHolland got engaged to Fiat, pending their parents(Govt.) approoval, which they won in a few years. The debt is seems was frozen pending Govt. approval.
My problem here was the fact that there were almost 4 years between the engagement and the wedding. The artical I read was dated Feb 2001, and stated that Fiatt would Garentee the debt for 5 MORE years. Big Difference. And I appoligize.
I understand your concern. Such mergers have been known to leave consumors stranded. But not as bad as they think at first, things CAN be ok.
I can remeber when IH sold out to Tennico (Case) and all the IH fans in this area pannicked. And at first, it seemed on low volume parts and specialty items they were right. Later on though, aftermarket companies jumped in to fill the nich.
Even the pre '62 Fords have had some aftermarket companies jump in to fill the gaps.
Heck, we are a John Deere Dealer, and Deere and Company purchased an aftemarket Co. called A & I. A & I carries alot of parts for lots of older tractors of almost every brand I have heard of. Just the other day, we ordered a radiator for an old Ford 9N I'd taken in on trade and was vandalized on the lot. It was about $100. Not bad in my opinion.
So...don't fret yet. It may be an inconvienience, but that 1710 will be in your stable for quite a while.
Yes, I do put enphisis on the stability of John Deere in my pitch when I am trying to make a sale. To some folks, it means something, to others it doesn't.
I still have an old John Deere "A". It was purchased from my Dad's Uncle's Dealership. It was his last sale, before retirement and selling his store. It was the first "new" tractor my Grandfather bought. It was the tractor my Dad started farming with. It was the first tractor I drove by myself.
Who could blame me if I am proud of the fact we can get parts for tractors that age, under the same sign.
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
Pics
|
2002-10-04 43358
Tom, Had a farmer in my dealership from Germany about two years ago and had an interesting conversation with him. He thought due to the size of just the parts we have at this store we must sell 300 to 400 ag tractors at a minimum a year. Well I wish i did, we do stock parts for tractors 50 years old do to the fact that there are so many old red ones out in the fields still being used. Yes as Mr Ethics did explain about the merger between IH and Case many people were worried about there tractors and equipment. After all it was warranted, that is after the letter they got from there main competion raising the question about parts and service. Today the parts are just as good as they were prior to that merger and the system has only gotten better just the same as every manufacter. In the tail end of the seventies the market took a big down turn as to the numbers of tractors sold. IH had a break even at there main tractor plant of over 75000 tractors. Tough to sell that many tractors when that was nearly the total of all tractors sold of all makes. Parts are always going to be sold as long as people need them. They don't build the model A anymore but you can still find the parts for them just like your tractor in another 20 years. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
Pics
|
2002-10-04 43359
Tom, Had a farmer in my dealership from Germany about two years ago and had an interesting conversation with him. He thought due to the size of just the parts we have at this store we must sell 300 to 400 ag tractors at a minimum a year. Well I wish i did, we do stock parts for tractors 50 years old do to the fact that there are so many old red ones out in the fields still being used. Yes as Mr Ethics did explain about the merger between IH and Case many people were worried about there tractors and equipment. After all it was warranted, that is after the letter they got from there main competion raising the question about parts and service. Today the parts are just as good as they were prior to that merger and the system has only gotten better just the same as every manufacter. In the tail end of the seventies the market took a big down turn as to the numbers of tractors sold. IH had a break even at there main tractor plant of over 75000 tractors. Tough to sell that many tractors when that was nearly the total of all tractors sold of all makes. Parts are always going to be sold as long as people need them. They don't build the model A anymore but you can still find the parts for them just like your tractor in another 20 years. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| MRETHICS
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 190 Star City, Indiana
|
2002-10-04 43366
Yea Art, That downturn in the 70's caught all tractor companies by surprise.
Deere shut down one line at Waterloo, and were building campers for another mfgr. just to get by.
I can remember them renting fields to store tractors in, because it happened so fast, they didn't have enough time to halt production before the glut was upon them.
The thing that amazed me the most back then was the fact that in 1974 my dad wanted to buy a new John Deere 4430, and had a heck of a time getting one. Then only a few yaers later, dealers lot's were full of tractors. And the price had went up considerably.
Geeze, Im gettin old, I'm starting to talk like grandpa. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
Pics
|
2002-10-04 43367
That turn down was while IH was building there new remote factory to build there new tractor line that included some real neat processes that they still use today but it was so big and never needed after. They were also deep into a six month long strike which helped to topple the whole thing with the weight of everything else that was wrong. I know for what I've seen thru the years and you coming from a family organization must have seen much the same, it makes me wonder where will it all be in an other 20 years. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| MRETHICS
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 190 Star City, Indiana
|
2002-10-04 43373
Yes Art, It will be interesting to say the least.
History is all ready repeating itself. In the days just after WWII, 1947 John Deeres most popular tractor was 27 Hp.
Less than 20 years later(1960),John deere had abandoned tractors under 30 Hp The 1010 being the smallest they produced.
Then, In 1978, Deere re-enterd the market with the 950, guess what 27.36 Hp.
In 1999, John Deere began produceing the 4000 series in a brand new facility in Augusta, Ga.
There is an approx. 20 year cycle between these events.
Lord oh Lord, what will happen on or about Jan 1, 2019?
I wish I new.......now wait, maybe I do not.
have a good weekend...folks....See ya Monday!
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
|
2002-10-05 43394
Thanks for the comments Art & Mr.E. I'm not especially worried about parts, and I have seen a web company emerge that seems to specialize in pre-62 Ford parts. I am just as happy though to find that there may not be an immediate stranded debt crisis. Restructuring specialists usually work be goring somebody's ox and I'd just as soon not wonder if it's going to be mine. There might be a bit of a lag waiting for the market to produce a solution.
I do like using a factory parts system and I'm aware that the system represents a huge effort to maintain. Having said that, I guess I'll order some new bushings for the flip-up pin on the tractor seat. My wife got me a new seat for birthday and now I think I should do something about the new seat's wobble on the old suspension. Parts like these have become very pricey, but I guess I could make my own.
‘Do it yourself’ is of course another alternative to patronizing a multi-national conglomerate. Come to think about it many early cars, tractors, airplanes etc. were little more than hobbies of fairly ordinary individuals built in backyard garages. Maybe overall we lost something in the transition from hobby to conglomerate. Who knows maybe by 2019 we’ll get it back—what ever it was.
....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
Pics
|
2002-10-05 43401
Well I guess you do have more time in than I at this buisness as I wasn't but a glint in my parents eyes in the late forties and the sixties I was just more aware of my back yard and not quite as worldly as you I guess. I didn't notice all those changes. The different books I have of the history of farming does talk of it. Every manufacturer has made there mistakes just like us, thats what makes this country such a great place, we are still here to talk about them. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
|
2002-10-06 43439
Mostly history to me as well, although I was an early '40's glint. My cousins' back yards, whose parents were barely into the cash-crop economy at that time, always did fascinate me more than my own city backyard though. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| MRETHICS
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 190 Star City, Indiana
|
2002-10-07 43487
Whoa.......I wasn't born until '63. The first few grey hairs did not appear in my beard until a few months ago.
My great Uncle was a Deere dealer, My Dad, was on the farming side of the family.
While I have always been a John Deere fan (like I had another choice in a family like that, My history of John Deere was not all witnessed. While I caan remeber events and changes that happened as early as 1970, my interest in there history was not aquired until I was hired here a few years ago. It is not the store my great uncle ran. That one has long been gone. But, when I was hired, I boned up on the companies past. It wasn't required, but I felt I wanted to know this company.
What I've learned will be of no monitary value I guess, unless I suddenly find myself on the game show "Jeopardy" and there is a category called...oh I don't know...uh..."Let's plow through it" ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
Pics
|
2002-10-07 43495
As I often tell my kids you are catching up on me, just by fractions of coarse as I just nailed my oldest son that he is nearly 1/2 my age at 25. I thought he was going to croak when I told him that! How times have changed with this industry and the direction's they have taken. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| kevanos
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 43 Indiana
|
2003-02-19 49543
Just some additions/corrections...
Landini has been in the USA for quite some time. It used to be owned 100% by Massey Ferguson, which handled the distribution. 1989, 66% of Landini was sold to ARGO, the present owners. Massey Ferguson was purchased by AGCO in 1994, and distributed Landini. 2000-AGCO sold last 9% of Landini to ARGO. AM Jawa distributed Landini in the USA for a couple of years, and now Landini handles it themselves.
ARGO purchased the McCormick name and the aforementioned factories from Case New Holland in 2001. CNH was required to sell the line of tractors mfg. there. CNH also sold the Versatile plant in Winnepeg to Buhler. The Genesis and Versatile tractors are built there. Of the deal, CNH kept the Bi-Directional tractor. Both Buhler and McCormick continued manufacturing tractors for CNH through last year. Buhler threatened to move the operations to Fargo, ND over a labor dispute, but did not. Operations are still in Winnepeg. Of note, CNH also sold the Laverda combine and hay baler operations to ARGO, and sold Case IH's portion of the Hay Industries in Hesston, KS to it's partner, AGCO.
Case was purchased by Tenneco, which later purchased the agricultural business of the bankrupt International Harvester in 1985. Tenneco also purchased David Brown in 1972, and merged in with the Case lineup. DBs were last built in 1983. Tenneco purchased Steiger in 1986. Tenneco spun off Case, Corp. into its own company. Case purchased Steyr in 1996.
Ford purchased Sperry*New Holland. Fiat purchased a portion of Ford's ag business. The remainder of the company was then sold to Fiat, and the name changed to New Holland. Fiat had previously purchased Hesston in 1977, selling the Fiat tractor as a Hesston.
Fiat merged New Holland with the Case Corp to form Case New Holland in 2000.
Cyrus McCormick did found McCormick, then with some partners, merged several companies, including Deering, Plano and Milwaukee Harvester in 1902 to form International Harvester Corporation. The McCormick name continued to be used on some tractors up until 1969.
McCormick Tractors International is the corporate name of the new McCormicks, and is distributed in the USA by Vermeer. The tractors are built by McCormick in England, and by Landini, SEP and Valpadana (all ARGO companies) in Italy. In England, they sell combines built by Laverda in Italy.
whew... how's that? I probably left something out, and may have possibly made a mis-statement. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| kevanos
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 43 Indiana
|
2003-02-19 49545
Oh, Cub Cadet was mentioned. IH created the Cub brand in 1961. They continued until sold to MTD in 1982. MTD has continued the brand, and until recently, few people realized their ownership. They import the compact/utility tractors from Mitsubishi in Japan, and assemble others from another supplier (?) using Diahatsu engines. ....
Link: Cub Cadet
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
 | marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
Pics
|
2003-02-19 49559
Cubs were not introduced in 1961! they were introduced in the 1940's and were the spring board into the L0-BOY design several years later. This produced the spin-off of the CADET series in the 60's. The last true cubs were produced in 1974. The lowboys were continued until around 1980(just before the emergence of the IH Mitsubishi built lines). ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
|
2003-02-19 49568
I can think of three more 1940's Cubs beside my own within a one mile radius of where I live. It has less horsepower than my wifes lawn mower, I don't use it for anything, but being there such a neat little tractor we just keep them around. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| kevanos
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 43 Indiana
|
2003-02-20 49609
Oops. I should have said the Cub CADET brand was created in 1961. I'm not sure when it became a separate division. Of course you are correct that the Cub (Farmall Cub) came out in the '40s.
Cub Cadet l&g tractors are good solid machines. My Grandpa had an early '80s, late '70s 982 Diesel, one of the red ones, and I now have a '81 782, red. My neighbor runs a 1960s Cub. I've heard mainly things about the newer machines.
Sorry for the confusion. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add PhotoTractor History Question
| Woodbeef
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 63 Canada
|
2003-02-20 49623
Hey Kevanos,
Pretty good run down there!! Only things I can add are:
The David Brown name disappeared with the introduction of the Case 94 series,but DB tractors were made under the CIH name until 1988.
Fiat had to sell off Hesston twice in the long run. Once when they bought into Ford/New Holland,second time when the took over CIH and needed to liquidate their 50% share. ....
Reply to |
Quote Reply |
Add Photo
Go Top
Share This