Go BottomJD 48 Backhoe Complaint
 | Peter Hoyt
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2001-05-13 28127
Hello. I've had my new 4300 for only 3 weeks now. Yesterday I bought a landscape rake. So this morning I got the bright idea to remove my "quick detach" 48 backhoe... Well, it isn't so "quick"! It took me 30 minutes of work to disconnect hydraulics. Maybe know I know why the salesman didn't complete the demonstration on how to completely remove the backhoe. I would have seen this problem right then. I'd like to hear from other 48 owners... do you have a problem removing the female connector from the backhoe side of the return line? On my rig, the metal line is angled just enough to prevent it from coming back far enough to be easy to release. Seems to me that there is enough hose there so that a simple 45 degree fitting would fix the problem. In fact, when I call the dealer tomorrow I'm going to ask if that can be done... the present situation just isn't going to work... I also found that when my salesman was demonstrating the first part of the removal process, he really screwed up my return line hose. As I remember it, he had it pinched at one point during the "demo". The plastic covering is torn and the braided inner line is visible... that doesn't make me feel very good at all! I'm going back to bitch about that and ask for a replacement before it breaks. Anyone have the same problem with the hydraulic lines on a new 48 backhoe? Thanks for your input.
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| Chris in IN
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2001-05-13 28132
Peter
I have a 4400 with the 48 backhoe. I have trouble with the male line on the hoe, I have never had a problem with the the female line. I can get mine off in less than five minutes. Where are you positioned when you are unhooking the hoses? I have found that the best position for me is to kneel in the tractor seat. On my tractor the female connector on the tractor is on the right pointing straight back. The male connector is on the left, it angles to the left. It is above the backhoe frame. ....
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| Peter Hoyt
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2001-05-14 28137
Chris, based on what you just described, I reversed the names of the lines in my mind. My rig is parked 100 miles from here... I also found that the only way to remove the female line (that had to move to the rear of the tractor) is to do it kneeling on the driver's seat. So that means it was the male line is the one that projects at about a 45 degree angle (to the engine crankshaft) towards the left side of the tractor. To remove that line, the only way I could do it was to stand on the ground on the left side of the tractor and give it my all to pull back the disconnect collar and try to pull the connection a hair to towards the rear while pulling on the connection. Not easy at all and it took me several busted knuckles and a good 30 minutes to get it off. I had the same problem getting the connection back on later in the afternoon.
I am beginning to wonder if the salesmand didn't cause the connection to bend a bit when he pinched the line. Laying in bed I was trying to figure out how he could do that and I'm not sure. But I remember him sitting the backhoe down after raising it with the out-riggers and the boom. Now that I've owned the tractor and gone thru the manual in detail, I know that he never should have done it that way. I sure hope the dealer doesn't try to blame me for this and refuse to help out. I'll know more this evening after work when I drive up there and talk with them. I will post the results. And if this is not a design issue, I'll be sure to say so. Thanks. ....
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| MJB
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2001-05-14 28139
I have had my JD48 hoe for about 3 weeks now and have put it on and off at least 10 times. I have got to say I love that backhoe. It never takes me more than 5 minutes to connect or disconnect the hoe. Be sure that the tractor is shut off and move the control valves for the 3ph and backhoe controls around to relieve the hydraulic pressure before connecting or disconnecting the hoses. I find that the hose with the female connector on the tractor is the more difficult one to connect because of the cramped location. The hose that points to the side of the tractor on an angle always goes on and off easily for me. Hope this helps. ....
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| JeffM
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2001-05-14 28150
Pete, my experiences with the 48 backhoe are the same as MJB and Chris. The first time to remove and install took me longer because I wanted to make sure I was doing everything right. The return hose (female from backhoe, male on tractor) is always easy to disconnect and easy to access, but this sounds like the one you're having trouble with. On my 4400 it looks just like the picture at the top of page 8 of the backhoe manual. As Chris stated the pressure line can be a little tougher because it is cramped in there, but it has never taken me more than 15-20 seconds to rotate it to where I could release it or install it with my fat hands. A couple things about your post sound funny. It sounds like you may still have pressure in your lines for one thing. Like MJB said, make sure you cycle the boom control after the tractor is shut off to relieve any pressure. I'm also confused by your comments that the dealer used the stabilizers and boom to get the hoe into position (???) because this setup uses the rockshaft arms to raise and lower the how while mounting. I do remember my dealer saying there are two ways to run the hydraulics for the 48 off the power-beyond, and he said they set mine up the way he thought was easier, but I can't remember what the other way was. If the dealer damaged a hose to the extent you describe I would definitely get it replaced. If they give you a hassle, I would consider going to a different dealer who might know more about how to remove and install a 48. ....
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| JeffM
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2001-05-14 28151
The only difficulty I've had attaching my 48 hoe is that the last time it seemed that the rockshaft would not lift the hoe quite high enough to install the L-pins. I had to put a small shim (actually 1" copper pipe) over the rockshaft pins to lift the hoe high enough. I'm going to try to adjust the metal plates near the backhoe hooks to see if I can get the 1/16" I need. Anybody else ever experience this or have any suggestions? ....
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| JeffM
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2001-05-14 28153
The "metal plates near the backhoe hooks" are called the "movable latch plates" in the manual. ....
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| MJB
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2001-05-14 28158
JeffM: I did have the same issue with the rockshaft not lifting the hoe quite high enough to align the holes for the L-pins. I adjusted the plates you referred to such that when the 3ph is in the full up position the holes line up perfectly to allow the L-pins to just slip in. Works great. I also found it easier on my machine (4300 with R-4s) to slip the L-pins through from the inside to the outside and snap the lock pins on the outside of the frame. Hope this helps. ....
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| JeffM
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2001-05-14 28161
MJB, thanks for sharing your solution to lifting the 48 hoe high enough. After I posted that I looked in the manual and it said if the rockshaft arms aren't lifting the hoe high enough you should have the dealer adjust the rockshaft lift limit or something like that. However, this is such a small amount of adjustment needed that I'm going to try with the movable latch plates first. I have turf tires and don't have a problem with clearance for the L-pins, but I'll check to see if inside-out works better. Thanks again. ....
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| Chris in IN
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2001-05-14 28182
Peter are you shutting off the engine before you disconnect the lines. It sounds like you have pressure in the lines or a damaged connector.
I also had trouble getting the hoe raised high enough the last time to get the pins in. I just pulled the 3pt lever back till it hit the stop & it raised high enough. I could hear the relief valve open so I pushed the handle foward enough to close it. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2001-05-15 28188
Chris: I think that in most tractors, the 3ph control rod is out of adjustment if the relief valve opens when the 3ph is fully raised. You might check a manual, or maybe I didn’t read the comment right. ....
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| Peter Hoyt
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2001-05-15 28190
Hello everyone. Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas. However, I have figured out what happened. I drove up to my place last night with the idea of being at the dealer's door at 0800 this morning, tractor in tow... Well, when I got there the first thing I did was hook up my trailer and position my truck where I could load. Then I went to the tractor and uncovered it. Yes, I keep it covered... its too new to sit out in the South Texas sun and hail. Anyway, I decided to give that connection one more try. This time it popped off in my hand just like I knew it should. What happened? Well, Sunday, to get it back on, I had to take a pair of channel locks to that thin metal bracket that holds the mounted side of that connection. I bent it just enough to move the angle slightly towards the rear. That did the trick and let me put the connection back on. Then, last night, with the combination of no pressure at all, it had been sitting for 24 hours, and the new angle, I was able to easily remove the connection. Frustrating? Yes... so I took my frustration out on two cedar stumps that have been bothering me. They won't any more. Ok, now you might be wondering how this happened in the first place. The day I went to sign the paper work, I asked my salesman to demo the removal process. Well, believe it or not, he didn't follow the manual. He fired up the tractor, and used the backhoe out riggers to raise it a bit to remove the two pins, and then use the outriggers again to lower the entire attachment to the ground. Hydraulics still attached. Had I known now, what the manual says, I never would have just watched this. Then as he was trying to reconnect the backhoe, he got the one hydraulic line pinched between the tractor mounted frame and the backhoe. That moved the fitting a bit and tore into the plastic housing on the hose, right next to the metal fitting on the connection. At the time I noticed the pinched hose and pointed it out. And I saw the slight dent in the plastic on the top of the hose. However, I didn't and I couldn't see the damage to the hose on the bottom. Eventually, he got someone else to come out to help. This guy knew what he was doing. He disconnected the hydraulics and connected the lift arms properly and had us back in business in a few minutes. I had no idea that I had a problem until this Sunday when I decided to remove the backhoe and attach a landscape rake I bought on Saturday. I'll call the dealer again this morning and then run over to see the people at the dealer after work. I think I can wait till the 50 hour service is due. That will be only another month at the rate I am racking up hours. What do you think? Should I insist it be repaired immediately, or just try to get them to agree to repair it when I bring it in at 50 hours? It is almost exactly a 100 mile trip between the dealer and my land so I'm not anxious to make that trip hauling my 4300 any more than necessary. Thanks. ....
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| JeffM
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2001-05-15 28197
TomG and Chris, the 48 backhoe manual says that the hydraulic system will go into relief when the backhoe is lifted to the stops with the rockshaft arms and warns not to let the system stay in relief for over 10 seconds. I can't find anything in the manuals that says that the three point should not go into relief at the top of its travel. ....
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| JeffM
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2001-05-15 28199
Peter, if the hose isn't leaking and you are able to connect and disconnect ok, then it should be ok to wait a month until your 50 hour service. I'd tell the dealer now because they may have to order the hose anyway. ....
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| JeffM
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2001-05-15 28201
Peter, Chris, and MJB, I just had an interesting conversation with an acquaintance who works at a JD dealership regarding the 48 backhoe hookup. I told him about the rockshaft not picking the hoe up quite far enough and asked for his suggestions. He agreed that by adjusting the movable latch plates a tiny bit forward (<1/16") it would allow the hoe to come up the tiny bit needed to clear the pins. Or, he said, "the easier way is to just ignore what the manual says and use the stabilizers and boom to lift the unit into place". ??? Go figure. He claims that around the shop that's the way they do it all the time. Well, I'm still going to adjust my unit to use the rockshaft arms, but it is nice to know a fallback method if I get a little out of adjustment again. ....
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| Greg franklin
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2001-05-15 28209
I have the 8B on my 870 and it is attached and detached by using the boom and stabilizers. Sounds like an old habit. In my case the dealer apparently didn't read or know how to assemble one. They had the tractor rear brackets reversed and the filter guard screwed up. I had to get the installation manual and reinstall these myself. They also routed the hoses wrong and pinched two lines where the boom pivots at the frame. I didn't know this until months later and the line failed. I was up in the air doing a swing and it went pop. I was STUNNED at how fast it crashed to the ground. The dealer was a state away so I never bothered with them even though it was their responsibility. My only comment is the subframe limits your ground clearance and I am on turf tires to begin with. ....
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| Peter Hoyt
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2001-05-15 28215
Two things. 1st, I called my dealer and he agreed that they would replace the damaged hose. Still like they way they treat me as a customer. I'll take it in for the 50 hour service in a few weeks and call before to remind him about the hose and get one ordered if necessary. 2nd. I also had problems getting the rockshaft arms to lift the 48 backhoe high enough to get both pins in. I got the left side pin in easily and then attached the hydraulics to use the right side outrigger to lift the 48 a hair more. Of course everything was parked on about a 5 degree slope.... haven't got a level spot on the property... that's a project for the future. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2001-05-16 28243
JeffM: I interpreted 'rockshaft' as the 3ph. Maybe the reference is to a different rockshaft, since I don't know the hoe. I'm always curious and always ready to learn something new. Anyway, if the comments are about the 3ph, my 1710 manual trouble shooting section indicated the relief valve isn’t supposed to open at the top of lift-arm travel. It's always good to read manuals, because not everything works the same. However, if the comments are about a 3ph, I can’t see that a design where it’s possible to inadvertently open the relief is all that good of an idea. ....
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| JeffM
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2001-05-17 28287
I took the day off yesterday to get some "seat time" on my tractor and generally to play. Adjusted the movable latch plates forward about 1/16 inch and then there was no problem raising the hoe high enough to engage the L-pins. And to put TomG at ease - you're right, the system won't go into relief simply by moving the rockshaft arms (which are the 3-point lift arms) to their full upper limit. The system was going into relief because the backhoe was lifted up against its stops and the rockshaft was not yet at its upper limit. Which makes sense now. My problem was not that the rockshaft couldn't lift high enough, it was that the mounting adjustment on the hoe was not allowing it to go high enough. Mounting and removing the hoe is now less than a five minute job each way - even going slow. Reminds me of one of my uncle's favorite sayings: "By the time I finish this job, I'll know how to do it!" ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2001-05-18 28322
Thanks Jeff. Ease of mind is a definite precious commodity for many people in these times. I can use all I can get. ....
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