Go BottomGM 100 000 mile warranty
 | hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa 
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2006-09-16 135214
We are thinking of updating to a new mini van from our 02 Chevy Venture. What with the lousy reliability records of our domestic cars, I was leaning toward an import. A couple days ago I saw the new GM warranty program, I read it and re read it. Looks like they warrant everything that normaly never breaks down, like the engine, tranny, etc. No mention of the stuff that keeps you broke, like air conditioner, electric doors, windows, wheel sensors, etc. Come on GM make it a real bumper to bumper warranty then you'll get my attention. Frank.
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| DenisS
Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 367 NJ 
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2006-09-18 135247
good point.
they're better than they used to be, but still not good enough to get my money.
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2006-09-18 135248
It's a viscous circle Frank, to keep the prices down and sales up, they have to cut corners and force parts suppliers to do the same, then they have reliability issues that mean reduced sales and warranty costs still kill the bottom line.
I was looking at a new car 4 years ago and my sister and her husband were also shopping for much the same thing at the same time, so we were comparing notes.
We both wanted a higher end small sedan. They bought the Caddy, I bought the BMW. My car was covered, bumper to bumper for 4 years, including scheduled maintenance. THere's had the basic GM warranty. Mine has needed nothing BUT scheduled maintenance in 4 years, they gave theirs back this spring because they had such a problem with it.
There was only about $5,000 difference in price between them new, but they got about half of what mine is worth when they traded it back in at the same dealer they bought it from.
Gee, I wonder why GM is having such a big problem?
Best of luck. ....
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2006-09-18 135250
100,000 mile warranty?
That would have equaled 9 transmissions on my 91 Chevy patrol car. ....
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 | Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4299 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2006-09-18 135251
GM = JUNK! After the hosing I took on a new 1993 Suburban K2500 4 x 4, I will NEVER own a GM product again! At least not until they pay me back the $8,000 hit I took trading it in on my current Dodge 2500 Cummins pickup as well as a 100% bumper to bumper NO COST 100,000 mile EVERYTHING covered including comparable size SUV rental car to get me around while it spends much of its life in the shop. Same thing applies to Ford! ....
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| hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3583 iowa
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2006-09-18 135258
We did check out a couple "Rice Burners", Honda and Subaru over the weekend. Neither offer any big deal warranty above the domestics, but they both seem to have a pretty good rating far as reliability. One brother in law is on his second Subaru, says he would'nt own anything else. he did have a somewhat major engine problem after warranty, but it was fixed at no charge without any hassle. I'm kind of a simple guy, don't really need 90% of the electronic dodads that car makers seem to think I need, so if they started building 61 Ford Falcons again I'd be the first in line to buy one, simple as a hammer and that's about all you needed to fix one. Frank. ....
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 | SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 579 g 
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2006-09-18 135263
100,000 mile warrenty is BS. First off you get 36,000 bumper to bumper, up to 60,000 to cover some wear parts like the timing belt, then the rest of the 100,000 is for the engine and transmission. Nothing much has changed just some ear candy for a few more miles on the engine and trans. It is not just GM is all 100,000 warrentys. You got to drive something might as well have 100,000. You could buy a ford they might still be in buisness next year or the government will bail them out with our tax money like Dodge.
Why did they not bail out Enron and give all those people the money that was stolen from them. ....
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 | JasonR
Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 142 Northern Indiana
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2006-09-18 135264
I'm on my way to another 100,000+ miles on my GM, funny how I never get the junks ones. Must be pure luck - since aparently there are so many bad ones out there...
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| DenisS
Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 367 NJ
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2006-09-18 135265
just passed 192,000mi on my Geo prizm driving the vicious NJ roads. I think this thing will keep on going until I get bored of it. Of course the only thing GM in this car is that badge, the rest is honest to goodness Toyota. ....
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 | yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan 
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2006-09-18 135266
Wasn't the Geo series made by Suzuki? ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2006-09-18 135267
That's what I thought..... ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4299 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2006-09-18 135269
Rather than writing about what was wrong with my Suburban, it is much easer to write the almost NOTHING worked as advertised on the truck. When you factor on the engine replacement at 18,000 miles, axle leaks, brake problems, both side view mirrors falling off and never were useable due to shaking and vibration; the truck was a total POS. It looked sharp but that is about it. All GM did was try to apply half assed fixes to it and did the Fred Astere routine in tap dancing to avoid backing up the warranty. My Dodge Ram is a total different story. I am still in love with the truck some 4 years after I bought it. ....
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2006-09-18 135272
Im with Chief, know Murf think our Dodges are second rate, but I have $200 in repairs after 100K. The crank shaft position sensor had to be replaced. I have not even had to change the brake pads yet. I had good luck out of my Ford also, but had to change a 2$ seal in the rear end at 60K and it was recalled a number of times. It was the first year for the F150 in 97. I changed the rear end oil and replaced the seal in the rear end so a $60 fix for me, but I am sure it would have been a $300 job at the Ford shop.
The last Chevy I worked on was a friends truck with a bad bearing at 100K. I was not impressed. A friend with an engine shop says he fixes 3 GM for each Ford or Chrysler. Parts are cheap and plentiful, but I am not sure this is a good or bad thing. Supply normally follow demand.
The Geo Prism is from the Toyota/GM plant in Fremont CA. It is essentially a badge engineered Corolla. The Pontiac Jibe is also from this plant, a badge engineered Matrix. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2006-09-18 135280
Read the fine print on any extended warranty before you get too excited about it.
I had an extended warranty on my '95 Toyota Pick-up. I thought I was buying a Toyota warranty but when I checked later it was some sort of generic thing from (I think) GE financial.
Anyway, it was a "Gotcha". The engine developed an oval shape in the #1 cylinder and a piston slap, probably due to a head gasket/leakage problem.... which was the subject of a big recall 10 years ago on all V-6 engines.
After the dealer tore the engine down they got a call from the extended warranty carrier who refused to cover the repairs. The warranty covered all moving, lubricated parts in the drive train.
They said since the problem was in the engine block....it was not a "moving part".
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| DenisS
Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 367 NJ
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2006-09-19 135283
Geo Prizm = Toyota Corolla; There's a "Toyota" stamp on the engine to prove it.
I think another Geo model might have been made by Suzuki. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2006-09-19 135286
Eric, I know several guys who love their Cummins powered Dodges, not including you guys here.
The big problem from my point of view was two-fold, under-powered (at the time) and loud (again, at the time).
One of the pilots who has a plane at my airport has two Dodge 3/4 ton 4x4's, We jumped in one of his trucks the other day to go grab breakfast and I joked that I should have worn my noise-cancelling David Clark headset!! When we got back he got in my truck and went for a spin, he was amazed at how much quiter it was, especially when we were standing outside in between both of them running. Bear in mind, my truck has basically open pipes too!!
Best of luck. ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4299 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2006-09-19 135288
Ahhhhh, but Murf........that noisey (to me more like a loud purrrrr) ;O) aromatic, rattling Cummins is what makes the truck. The new common rail diesels are quiet because the fuel injection event is timed in stages. This does indeed quiet the engine down......... It also takes a BIG bite out of the fuel economy. I looked at the Ford and GM diesels but did not want to be a ginny pig on a newly marketed engine. Both the Duramax and especially the Ford 6.0 Powerstroke had a terrible time with fuel injectors going bad initially. I just wanted a very reliable truck with a diesel. My 2002 Cummins averages around 22 to 23 mpg. I have gotten a tad over 26 on a tank or two. I drive like an old foeggie, usually never above 50 mph. If Ford offered the F-250 or F-350 with a Cummins diesel, I would probably be driving a Ford truck. ....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2006-09-19 135289
Randy, LMAO!!!
That's *exactly* what this guy said, the noise is what makes it a truck!!!
I have the best of both worlds though, with open pipes it's barely louder than stock at idle, but about 2k rpm it starts to really make some noise, that deep throaty big block, high compression bark!!
I think it's great, the meeeesus, well, not so much!! LOL.
Mind you, I think aerobatics are a lot more fun than she does too!! Deputy Dog likes them too though!! LMAO!!!
BTW, I won't buy a 6.0 litre yet either, since my PSD is now mostly a toy, and I don't commute, my 1999 still only has about 150k miles (248k km) on it, so it will stay for a while yet.
When they bring out the new Land Rover diesel, I will be first in line though.
Best of luck. ....
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| SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 579 g
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2006-09-19 135299
DenisS
I had a 90' Astro van 230,000, 77' Pontiac Grand am 14 years old 180,000, 83 S-10 with a 4 banger from japan, that engine 70,000 miles pulling a bass boat it did not last. I have no problem with GM. I kind of go with the best deal ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2006-09-19 135302
Murf; When I bought mine they had a new Ford sitting right next to it. We tested one after the other. The Ford was quieter outside and the Dodge better inside. Both were the delux models so the sound insulation was the best offered. I thought the deeper tone of the Dodge was less abrasive to the nerves.
I am with Chief, if the Cummins was in the Ford I would have bought one. This was the first Dodge I have bought. I gained a low mile Omni 024 with my wife and a pile of work. At the time I could not convince her to flog the dog and keep my 74 Volvo 142 GL. After rebuilding the upper end I basicly gave it away. I never wanted another one.
DR I think I would have argued that the moving piston had caused the damage not the stationary block. My experience with Toyota has also been less than stellar. We bought a Previa van in 92 just out of waranty the switch for the oil reservior pump broke and decided to empty it into the engine. Luckally I caught it, my wife would have toasted the engine, but I could not figure out why they did not use gravity feed. Naturally the switch was $300 and you needed to remove the crossmember and oil pan to get at it. I talked the area service rep into the repair. At about 60K the unibody started to sag and the front window cracked. Toyota looked the other way on this one althought the body was still under waranty. When the van was hit in a front end offset crash, I was lucky to walk away despite the fact I was barely moving trying to avoid the on coming car. Naturally I had it written off. Luckally it happened just before the insurance institute demonstrated their offset crash on the Previa, showing it to be a death trap above 40 mph and reduced the resale to nil. ....
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| SG8NUC
Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 579 g
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2006-09-19 135303
Peters
I have heard and have had some bad experences with Toyota, the only good is the Camery there is alot of them on the road. ....
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| DenisS
Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 367 NJ
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2006-09-19 135307
The car I loved the most was my '87 Buick LeSabre. That was as close to owning a boat as I'll ever get to. I took it to 205K miles and sold it for $200 when it started fussing too much. The car I'd buy right now if I had the money would be '68 Eldorado. How come they don't make them like that anymore? ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4299 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2006-09-19 135308
Let's not forget the Olds Tornado and the Chysler Imperial. In my opinion, Honda is the top dog for reliability, durability, and quality. They all break at one point or another but Honda's seem to hold up well. ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2006-09-19 135310
Chief;
I would say Honda for the value aspect, when you add the price into the mix. I am not sure I would extend the complement to all the models either. There was some badge engineering in the Honda line up. You can not say they are the best in ultimate quality compared to something like some of the big Lexus most fall short.
Personally I think you have to go back to the 60's before you have a GM product that is better than the competition at the time. My uncle had a 68 olds that clocked 400,000 miles without a problem. Most at university had GM cars of this vintage and many were extremely high milers. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2006-09-19 135313
My wifes dad had a '70 Tornado. I can tell you why they don't make 'em like that anymore.
You could make two modern cars with the steel Olds put into one of those things.
And it was like a boat, the family called it the Queen Mary. It needed tugs and tenders to get it docked. ....
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 | Iowafun
Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 955 Central Iowa 
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2006-09-22 135370
Ah the good ole days. I drove a 64.5 mustang in high school. It had a non-original 200 ci straight 6. It burned a quart of oil a week like clockwork. I knew if I killed the engine dad would let me drop a V8 in it. I couldn't kill that engine no matter what I did!! Well, I couldn't bring myself to not refill the oil, that would have been evil.
The reason I'm driving a Ford F250 now instead of the Dodge was back in 1999, the Dodges up in Northern Minnesota couldn't keep an auto transmission in them. They had a very nasty habit of exploding all over your garage floor. Dodge wasn't standing by them either. I think Dodge has fixed the issue, but I haven't had the need nor the permission to look at another vehicle since.
All manufacturers have turds out there. Look at all the recalls Toyota has had the last year. Not pretty. The Ford 6.0 L diesel was horrible and that's why Ford is killing that off. The new designed Buicks are pretty reliable cars. My complaint is in the past, GM always put the smallest freaking brakes on their vehicles so they wore out quick. I hated that. My family is mostly sticking to Fords now because historically, we've had fewer problems with them than the GM products. My dad had a cam lobe break off in one of his GMs. I've never heard of that before.
On the other hand, my brother had an early 90's Chevy Cavalier. A true POS. BUT, he did get run off the highway in it resulting in him water skipping it across a pond. It came out running on the other side... ....
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| Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4299 Southwest MiddleTennessee
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2006-09-22 135371
I agree 1000% about the automatic transmissions. NONE of the American auto makers have an acceptable automatic trans.; Dodge had the worst or the bunch. That is why I waited until Dodge came out with the manual 6 speed NV5600. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2006-09-22 135373
I thought I was avoiding automatic transmission troubles when I bought my '79 Ford E-150 Van with a straight six and a 4 on the floor(no I am not pulling your leg, Ford made them).
Anyhow, they got still got me. All the syncros had to be replaced at 40,000 miles. ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2006-09-22 135382
DR, must have been your desire to spin the tires. A friend of mine had the same set up, I am not sure what the final milage was for the van as it was still in the family with 300K on it the last we talked. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2006-09-24 135405
I had no idea spinning tire would affect the transmission in that way. Anchorage has ice on the streets 5+ months a year, so spinning the tires is unavoidable.
Now that I think more about it, I was using Amsoil gear lube in that transmission and that may well have been the problem.
I am now recalling 4 transmissions with synchro problems that winter in my social circle. All had Amsoil lube in them. It was a bitter cold winter with several -40F
nights, so that may have factored in too..... ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2006-09-24 135416
DR, naturally I was joking, the only way you could spin the wheels was on ice with that combination. The sister van was in southern Ontario near Murf so it saw some cold weather, but only gets real cold now and then. It was a rare combination but I think I saw another one or two with over 100K with no problems. I thought it was a good rig as they were something like 25 mpg on the highway.
Amsoil? Yes there may be a link. Naturally there are few recourse with them when the mechanics fails. ....
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| brokenarrow
Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1288 Wisconsin
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2006-09-24 135444
I just turned over 160K on my 1500K silverado.
A few problems under warrenty, a few more problems out of warrenty but nothing too out of the ordinary. I dont want to blow my horn that it has been a good truck (it has) because this morning in the wet wet wet weather we had, it took a few time to get started and only after it warmed up did it run good. I think a new problem is on the horizon. All in all I am happy with the truck but I need atleast another 60K on her to be real happy! ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2006-09-24 135446
OK Eric.... you got me.
Spinning wheels? Not on a dry surface. Besides the six and a stick, that van was only available with a .273 rear axle.
It would burn the clutch trying to start on hills and 1st gear topped out at 50+ mph. It was not just useless on ice but sometimes dangerous.
I eventually swapped the .273 for a .350 locker. Never saw 22 MPH again but at least I could get it rolling come winter time. ....
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| daveinnh
Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 30 central NH
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2006-09-29 135574
Hardwood:
You have a point. I had a '99 Silverado where the transmission went bad ~ 2,500 miles. The dealer put a new onein under warranty. After 2 years, GM had the 0% interest and I bought a '02. No serious problems after 110k, just regular maintenance items. Someone told me - buy a Chevy to tow; and a Ford to plow. ....
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