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 | bx23kid
Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 10 CT 
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2004-02-01 75689
I've taught myself about the BX23 through this discussion forum. Seems that golfpro made out pretty well. We have a business digging holes in various sizes from 2'wide X 3' deep up to 4'wide X 8' deep. We have been digging them for years by hand, only to make a cylindrical hole without the walls being disturbed. We have dug cylindrical holes in the past only because we cement a sleeve, that is cylindrical as well, in the ground after the hole is dug. Some have told me that using a backhoe will not, obviously, make a cylindrical hole(which does not matter)but most importantly , it will not dig a nice square hole without disturbing the walls on the side where the bucket returns to the machine when dumping. I feel that smaller size of this bucket will allow me to carefully "chip-away" at the hole until i've crafted a nice square hole. Can this be done or will i just create more work for myself by back-filling and reforming the hole after i have disturbed the walls? Please help, i have convinced our staff that this will work, but need other experienced advice to back this up. i will be renting in the spring after the ground thaws to try this, but need to know what i'm in for. If it works, we will be purchasing a new bx23. thank you..
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| jimbrown
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 56 Cochise cnty Az
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2004-02-01 75690
I did not look up the BX23 specs but the max depth for a BX22 is 6 ft and that is hard. Depending on the ground how hard or soft it is you can dig a fairly square hole but it is slow and difficult as you get deeper. ....
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| bx23kid
Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 10 CT
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2004-02-01 75695
I understand that it will only dig 6 ft. and the hole does not have to be square, but it is preferable. We will rarely go to 8ft, maybe once a year. If we do we can always do the last 2 ft. by hand. My concern is that the hole is upright, almost like the walls that an auger will give you. As long as it is somewhat plum and not overly disturbed when curling and pulling the bucket out. thanks for the prompt replies! ....
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| EM57pe
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 13 Southern Illinois
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2004-02-03 75849
"will not dig a nice square hole without disturbing the walls on the side..." I don't think this will be a problem. The BX23 BH is extremely precise and controllable, and the boom, curl, and crowd cylinder controls are well coordinated in speed so that you can easily make complex, multi-axis movements with the bucket. I have not experienced any problem with bringing the bucket straight up from the bottom of a hole while staying clear of the sides. One example I can offer, although it is the opposite of what you are wanting to do, is skimming sod. By simultaneously crowding in and raising the boom, the bucket travels at almost a constant depth, allowing you to make a very shallow cut -- just an example of how you can use both controls at once to get the desired motion of the bucket.
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| bx23kid
Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 10 CT
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2004-02-03 75853
EM57pe...thanks for the reply, that information helps alot. how is the overall strength though? just wasnt sure if the backhoe would do some heavy digging. my main concern was that the bucket could dig a plumb hole, straight down. the shape really doesnt matter that much i guess. how long would it take to dig a 2' X 3 1/2' hole u think? the sizes of our holes go up from there. ranges from 2'-4'wide X 3'-8'deep. thanks again. ....
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| EM57pe
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 13 Southern Illinois
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2004-02-03 75873
Strength: As much as the tractor's weight can handle and more. Easy to pull the BX23 all over the place if you don't use correct technique! This is my first BH, so nothing to compare it with. You're not gonna rip big trees out by the roots with it :-) but it sure seems to move dirt well. More in next post.
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| EM57pe
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 13 Southern Illinois
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2004-02-03 75874
Speed: Only have 30 hours on mine, but have dug a few things. I did an approximate 2' x 3' x 3' hole to bury some trash recently. Our ground is thin topsoil followed by heavy yellow and gray clay. Wasn't timing myself, but it seems it took only a few minutes, and I was trying real hard to keep the walls straight, just to see if I could do it and to build experience. I'm sure the deeper you go, the slower it gets, since you have to move the material further and the spoils pile gets bigger. The slowest thing you can dig (IMHO) is a trench. With only 6' of reach you have to get off, turn the seat, and move the tractor quite often.
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| EM57pe
Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 13 Southern Illinois
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2004-02-03 75877
One more thought, you might post a question in the Backhoe forum regarding what you can and can't do vis a vis hole shape, digging speed, etc., just from a general BH operating perspective. I'm a real beginner, although I think I've been able to get the hang of some of the basic operations.
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| bx23kid
Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 10 CT
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2004-02-03 75906
thanks guys....EM, i will consider the BH forum, but i seem convinced already. mark, good to know the strength is there. these two considerations of digging plumb holes and maintaining undisturbed walls were my main concerns. i'm glad i can talk w/ experienced people other than salesmen. if u guys come across any other experiences that might relate to my concerns, please let me know. have you guys tried plowing with the loader? ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2004-02-08 76320
The idea sounds like a lot of fine adjusting, valve feathering and moving the tractor. I think it might be a good idea to rent a machine to find out if it will do the job before buying something.
I've done a fair bit of 'wall truing' with a hoe and it takes time. All hoe movements are in arcs so no single movement can be taken very far without adjusting something else and keep a straight line. I guess whether it'd be a good application depends how undisturbed 'undisturbed' means. The equivalent of position control on the swing circuit also would save a bunch of time. I have heard of hoes with coordinated controls. They're supposed to handle most of the separate adjustments needed to keep level trench floors. Something like that might be very useful here. ....
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| bx23kid
Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 10 CT
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2004-02-09 76423
EM, I wanted to know if any of you guys have tried snow plowing with the loader, or if a blade is better. TomG, Thanks for the info. I've been under the impression that all the backhoe movements move at the same speed. the arm to move down and out, while curling, then up and in, all at the same speed. our holes are for flagpole bases. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-02-09 76463
It's probably obvious when you think about it that everything moves around pivot points so hoes don't make any linear movements--that's also true for 3ph's and loaders.
I think a skilled hoe operator could do the work as you described 'by chipping away at it' because the movements are all short. However, the work may take longer than expected, and coordinated controls may be worth the money as a time saver--depends on how critical the specs are of course. The effects of arc movements are fairly pronounced when using small CUT hoes.
To illustrate, A full stroke dig with the stick on a small hoe will be some inches deeper at the vertical than at either end without adjustments. During the stroke the bucket angle changes so the curl has to be adjusted to keep a good digging angle, but that changes the trench depth too unless the boom is changed. An additional complication is that with most CUT hydraulics you only get one movement at a time. Operating several valves simultaneously gives you the 'lightest load moves first' operation. The operations also happen at different speeds.
Anyway, digging level trench floors is something of an art and also takes more practice than I've given it. Truing walls is a similar problem but at least only the end walls are affected and the distances are usually shorter. ....
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| bx23kid
Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 10 CT
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2004-02-10 76549
Thanks Tom, the hole doesnt exactly have to be a square, but it most importantly needs to be pretty plumb. we are installing larger flagpoles. they require a sleeve that is cemented into the ground. the average sleeve size is 6-8 inches and the holes sizes range from 24" - 48" in width to 36"- +". so there is room for play to set the sleeve plumb, but as long as its close is what matters. we just dont want to create too much of a mess, but thats where hand digging comes in handy. just takes too long and gets tiring after 7-8 holes. ....
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| bx23kid
Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 10 CT
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2004-02-10 76550
Sleeve measurements are 6-8" wide by 2.5-4.5' in depth. so you can see that the holes are much bigger for play, but mainly for a large cement base. i just want to keep holes looking nice for cosmetic purposes. ....
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| jimshea
Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3 ma
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2004-07-20 91449
My opinion is that it has to be looked at for what it is.I feel the strenth and power is decent for it's intended purpose and size.My biggest issue with the bh is having to move the machine so frequently when digging. ....
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