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 | Walt
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2000-11-29 21958
Should Gore concede
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| Jim Youtz
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2000-11-29 21962
ABSOLUTELY, IMMEDIATELY. WE'VE BEEN SUBJECTED TO ENOUGH OF HIS SELFISHNESS. ....
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962 
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2000-11-30 21966
Instead of spending all that money on lawyers, Gore needs to buy a new tractor and go back to that farm in Tennessee. Who knows, he might be happier that way, and I know I would be. ....
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| Frank R Taylor
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2000-11-30 21974
I know it's tough to lose by such a slim margin but I think it's time for him to blow his nose, wipe his tears and ride off into the sunset, hopefully on a Kubota. Had to get it in somewhere. ....
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| Ted Kennedy
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2000-11-30 21977
Folks, one of the great things that I've enjoyed about this board has been its lack of politics, and, being always careful not to step on anyone's feelings, I've refrained from using this as a political ends to a means. But seeing as how someone else has opened the barn door I can't hold back anymore. Mr. Gore should withdraw and concede. And while he's at it, he should come clean (an impossibility?) and be honest with America; admit that he tried to manufacture votes and still lost. Then, those in the Democratic Party who still have honor should openly apologize for the conduct of the Gore and the Clinton Administration. Doing so will set Mr. Gore down in history as a great man and restore confidence in our nation's highest office and the process that elects its officials. Then Mr. Gore can go back to the farm in Kentucky and tend his tobacco crop, I find plowing very good for the soul. ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada 
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2000-11-30 21982
OK, here we go, in for a penny in for a pound I say as I wade into it..... As a northerner (and not a Yankee, check the nickname) whose family's only political connection to our friends to the South was in being a very proud, very significant portion of the northern terminus of the Underground Railway, let me say that I think Abraham Lincoln had it right. If a person wants to help the country, good for him, he can DONATE (read: work for free) 4 years of his life and career, then GO HOME (read: end of political career), safe in the knowledge that the country is a better place for their efforts. Participation at the local, 'grass roots' level is what made these two great countries what they are today, GREAT COUNTRIES. Hanging on to political positions (and the related salary) 'ad nauseum' is what will bring the downfall of them. Don't believe me, look at the USSR, once undeniably the largest political machine (not to mention armed force) in the world, now bankrupt, spent into oblivion. Pay heed my friends, history is a patient but unforgiving teacher....... ....
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962
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2000-11-30 21989
A man after my own heart, Murf. I don't think our founding fathers ever envisioned professional, life long, politicians with big salaries, huge expense accounts, ridiculous pensions, etc. And I, too, believe it will eventually be our downfall. ....
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| Chuck
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2000-12-01 22013
I think Bush should concede. I have this really wacko belief in the concept that the person who gets the most votes wins. Gore got 300,000+ more votes so he should win. The Electoral College is a ludicrous ruminant from the past that robs millions of people of their right to have their votes counted!
Chuck in Indiana ....
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 | dsg
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 528 Franklin, Maine 
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2000-12-01 22016
HERE HERE chuck. Also we can't have a republican in the White House until the democrats take back the House and Senate. As long as there is stalemate in the political world, the economy will go forward and prosper. David ....
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 | Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
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2000-12-01 22019
I think there needs to be a balance of power to. You all know the old saying to much of something is bad for you. The elections in Florida have been run this way for years. Now because someone who has been given every thing they ever wanted didn't get there way every one has to bend for them. Party has no difference here it is the person and if his own state wouldn't back him I think he needs a major time out! ....
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| Joe A. Bell
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2000-12-01 22025
Hey Chuck. The U.S. was not and is not a democracy. It is, however, a republic in which the people elect representatives. The founding fathers/mothers/parents did not trust democracy and they certainly did not trust the rule of the majority. That is why we have a constitution of delegated powers. The electoral college protects us all from majority.
By the way, Bush won, Gore should quit whinning and pick up his marbles and go home. ....
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| JeffM
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2000-12-01 22030
I have a question: How many of you who have stated strong opinions in this particular thread would be just as vehement if YOUR choice of candidate (substitute a four-letter word here - gore, bush, crap, etc.) was in the opposite shoes. Case in point: my recent memory reveals that before the election many of my Gored-to-death aquaintances were defending the electoral college while just about ALL of my Bush-whacked friends thought the popular vote should reign supreme. Of course, common wisdom before the election was that Bush would win the popular vote. Funny how quickly all those opinions (both sides)got muted. Another pet peeve: in this day and age and with all the $$$ wasted on campaigns, why can't Florida get rid of such a unreliable method of voting as the paper ballot? This is an embarrassment to our country. I've lived in NJ and NY in recent years where electomechanical or electronic voting machines are used (no chad, no dimples, no voting for 2 candidates). I found out that my county's 40 year-old electromechanical voting machines were purchased used from, guess where, FLORIDA! And another thing: there were these reports out of Florida about people getting turned away from the polling place because their race didn't match the voting registration records. Whether or not that is true, I've never lived anywhere where my race was part of my voting registration. What's next, my religion? Sounds like some serious reform is needed before EVERY citizen's vote counts for something EVERYWHERE in this country. ....
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| Dennis J. English
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2000-12-01 22031
Since my 2 cents is only worth 1 cent (inflation), here it goes. As I see it, the Constitution gives the selection of electors to the state legislators. They determine within each state how they should be selected. In all our states that I'm aware of they call for popular election of electors. In some states it is all or nothing, and in some it is proportional. The legislatures of our states guarantees each elible voter the opportunity to vote. They don't gaurantee if you screw up, get confused, get stuck in the mud on the way to vote, or sneeze in the voting booth blowing out too many "chad," that you get to redoo it unless you do it immediately before exiting the polling place. It's too bad that the Gore-Lieberman machine had to employ telemarketing firms in Florida and Texas to drum up stupid voters. We now have a real mess. I think Gore should've conceded, but he won't until we have a bigger mess than we now have. I'm from Illinois (western), and we sure know how JFK won Illinois. Chicago's Mayor Daley knew how to get dead people to the polls. And guess who the Gore campaign manager is: William Daley, son of hizzoner. Coincidence? ....
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| JeffM
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2000-12-01 22033
Dennis, I can only vote if I'm smart? How smart? Maybe only if I live in NY or CA and have at least a Master's degree? My view is that campaigning and campaign financing has gotten completely out of hand in this country to where it is a national disgrace shared EQUALLY by both major parties, just in different ways in different places. There were some telemarketing campaigns conducted in NY this past election that would turn your stomach. The one thing that I don't mind is campaigning for citizens to just get out there and vote, whether those citizens are young or old, rich or poor, "smart" or "stupid". Useful statistic: over half of the people who voted in this past presidential election probably think that over half of the people who voted are "stupid". (Remember, you have to allow for the Nader vote.) ....
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| Chuck
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2000-12-01 22034
Hey Joe A. Bell. I don't want to be protected from the majority. Don't you see how unfair it is in states that have an all or nothing election of representatives to the Electoral College? For example let's say a state has 10 electoral votes and the popular vote was 1,000,000 to 999,999. In that state the votes of the 999,999 count for absolutely nothing. Those 999,999 people are completely excluded, disenfranchised from the election! The 10 votes in the college would be the same as if the popular vote had been 1,000,000 to 0! In Florida the votes of 2.9 million voters aren't going to count regardless of who ends up winning. Think about that the next time you are pondering the merits of democracy vs. republic. It's UNFAIR and that's my finally answer. ....
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| kay
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2000-12-01 22036
This thread isn't doing us any favors, but I can only imagine what the turmoil would be like IF we had popular vote, and IF it was close. HMMMmmmmm! EVERY state, county, district and voting team in the whole U.S. would be going through what a few are now going through in FL. Let's keep the electoral college, and hope some states get their head on straight and clean up their voting methods and rules. Lets talk tractors and things, please. We all get to vote again in 4 years. ....
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 | cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York 
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2000-12-01 22039
I have to throw my two cents in here. The busloads of people trucked in (and the street bums given cigarettes for their votes) by the Democrats to vote for the Santa promising the most for doing the least, failed to read the fine print on Santa's list. To reap the benefits of our Democracy, you must fully participate in it. That includes casting a legal, properly executed ballot! One that you should have at least been somewhat familiar with before you went to the polls. One that was designed by the Democrats in charge there and sampled all over the place. All these excuses, lies, lawyers, court actions and press releases from the Democrats just firms up my belief that Gore possesses the same integrity level as Slick Willie Clinton. What we need are fewer laws, lawyers and lawsuits. Not more. Nor do we need a group of appointed judges deciding the presidency. If the vote is not accepted, it should be settled by the elected officials in the State of Florida and the chips fall where they may. I still love my country more than any other and don't believe we need Hillary Clinton to come to our rescue by re-writing The Constitution. I have said my piece, I will now resume my non-political tractor talk. By the way, ask the Chinese how much selection they have in compact tractors under their socialist/communist leadership similar to the Democrat's philosophy. OK...I'M DONE! ....
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| Walt
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2000-12-01 22040
JeffM no one is suggesting that you have to be an intellectual giant to vote. You do have to be responsible. Along with many privileges such as freedom and voting comes a certain responsibility that behoves an individual to think and observe what he or she is doing at the time, not whine at a latter date when the results of irresponsibility are evident. ....
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| Jim Youtz
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2000-12-02 22049
A very good reason for the electoral college is illustrated by considering what would be the result of election by popular vote. If the presidency was decided by popular vote, does anybody think that candidates would campaign (or govern) on any issues which are not important to New York City, Los Angeles, Dallas and Chicago? Would canditates even visit or care about the rural or suburban areas of our country? I think not. Really under a popular vote a candidate could promise the moon to California, New York and Texas and snub his nose at the rest of the country, BUT HE WOULD PROBABLY BE ELECTED under this system. I'm completely oppossed to such a senario. The electoral college can be compared to the world series. It's not the total number of runs scored throughout the season, but the total number of games (states) won that determine the winner. The founding statesmen designed the electoral college to prohibit the complete domination of the nation by a few of the powerful states. Seems to me that this reason is just as valid today as it was then. ....
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| Bird Senter
Join Date: Jun 1999 Posts: 962
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2000-12-02 22054
You're right, Jim. I agree with the need for the electoral college. Of course, I do think it would be nice if the states could agree as to whether all their electoral votes go for the winning candidate or whether they electoral votes for each state would be split according to the popular vote in that state. ....
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| Dennis J. English
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2000-12-02 22065
Some pretty interesting viewpoints. The Constitution gave the responsibility for choosing the electors to the individual state legislatures. They are selected by direct vote of the people of the state. Those state legislatures chose to have the electors selected by popular vote of the people in the state. Most states have a winner take all situation, and some have electors split along proportional lines to the popular vote. This is why suddenly the Florida legislature is considering a special session to choose electors. They are the ones ultimately responsible for choosing electors from the state. We are a republic, not a democracy. In answer to another statement about voter IQ I want to say something. IQ has nothing to do with being able to read directions, be informed, or have informed opinions. I used to work with college grads who had 4.0 GPA's, may have been Dems or Reps, and most of them are woefully uninformed. I talked with an individual last night who asked me what the issues are. This person voted but didn't know about huge issues separating the two main political parties. I'm one of those people who believe a republican form of government is the best. ....
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| Larry in MI.
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2000-12-02 22075
Just when you thought there was enough said about this, here I am. I have been watching this drama unfold on the news. I have yet to see a tractor at either candidate's home. I don't think either one of them could properly operate a tractor though I am certain they would both try if it would give them the winning vote. Nuff said. ....
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| robert himrod
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2000-12-02 22076
I'm looking forward to the government in gridlock. That means fewer projects and programs to tax us. The best government we can have is one that's on vacation. ....
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| KlayW in MI
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2000-12-02 22081
For a very graphic representation to what Mr. Youtz has explained is located at this web address (link below); http://www.usatoday.com/news/vote2000/cbc/map.htm
You can pick out the major metro areas on the map! Keep the college and visit http://www.vote.com for the real political postings. If Gore wants "all votes counted fairly" then why are military ballots with water stained postmarks NOT counted? They clearly intended to vote, the mailed the ballot, it got to where it was addressed, count it Mr. Gore! Aaaghh! they are all the same, they say what they think you want to hear. Now back to the Compact Tractor Board. ....
Link: Election map
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| unclejohn
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2000-12-02 22082
Do I care which one of these guys gets the office? Yeah . . . but it I don't think it will make much difference in the long run, at least I hope not. Then again, King George may succeed in turning the whole country into a Texas upsize, environment and all. Then again if George was the best candidate money could buy, Al bore was about the worst. sigh The situation kind of reminds me of Jack Nicholson in that movie Mars Attacks. "We've still got one out of three branches of government working for us and that ain't bad." Then again the court system is becoming political and your chance of getting "justice" there is as good as your pocketbook. So what's my point? Where will we be when the majority of people lose confidence in the judical branch and become as cynical of it as they are of the executive and legislative? Give me gridlock and my morning paper. Thanks, Tom. ....
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| Joe A. Bell
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2000-12-04 22106
Hey Chuck. Busy weekend, didn't get back to this til this morning. The point I was trying to make is that this country was not, was not, and was not founded as a democracy. The fact that some of us would like to see a democracy is beside the point. By the way if you believe that the the electoral college somehow is 'unfair', then you must also want to do away with the senate. Afterall two senators regardless of population must be 'unfair'. I happen to live in Missouri (via Oklahom), if the popular vote alone elected the president, neither of those to guys would have campaigned in Missouri. In fact, probabaly the only state west of the Miss. they would have visited would have been California. Anyway, the idea the electoral college is somehow obsolete if not true; the college is exactly what the writers of the constitution wanted it to be. The population has gradually altered the system as our preferences have changed; for example, senators were orginally elected by state legislatures. Perhaps the electoral college will be eliminated some day, but it will take a consitutional amendment, and it will be very hard to get smaller states to vote for it. ....
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