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 11-14-2003, 00:58 Post: 68700
harvey



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 motor driven welder gen

I am looking at a Miller Bobcat250 D NT. Its a 3 cyl Kobata diesel. It will semi replace my old buzz box. (I'll use buzz bx for small quickie repairs). I "want" a heavy duty welder, it's portable, it has lots of generator power for back up eliminating the need for a pto unit.

We have Ranger 8's at work and they are half the money of the diesel but they only run on gas. Usually I bring one of those home or take the work in when doing heavy welding.

Lincoln discontinued their diesel Ranger 8.

Any thoughts on this "brain storm"?







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 11-14-2003, 07:47 Post: 68714
TomG

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I sure don't know much about arc welding and had to do some searching before I could tell that it's a welder rather than a skid steer. In my search I did stumble across a reference to the 'Miller Square Wave' concept so I did learn something or at least heard of something new to me.

The only thoughts I have is that it sounds like a good idea as long as it's going to be used frequently. Longevity is a common reason for paying the price for a diesel. But for lesser used equipment it's sort of like buying a parrot as a pet. They contribute value to estates. Our local cube van mobile welder uses a gas unit I think.






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 11-14-2003, 08:27 Post: 68718
Murf

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 motor driven welder gen

Harvey, I agree with Tom, but for a different reason.

If you want this machine as a combination welder / genset that is a good concept, combine two occasional uses into a single more often used machine.

However, from a standby generator point of view, AFTER the power has gone out in the middle of a very cold stormy night is not the time to realize your diesel power unit would rather not start. At least with a gas unit you have a little better odds it will spark up right away.

Tom does make a very good point about the justification for buying a diesel based on life expectancy. If the gas unit is half price you will have enough change left in your jeans to do a rebuild later on and still have some coin left over.

Best of luck.






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 11-14-2003, 09:55 Post: 68725
AC5ZO

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I considered a motor driven welding power supply at one time, but I eventually separated out the backup generator and welder. I have not looked at the specific unit that you refer to, but in my experience the amount of backup power for a given engine size is much lower on welder/gensets. For example, my 9KW generator uses an 18 HP gasoline engine. Most welder/gensets that I looked at had engines twice that large for the same KW. If you go with diesel, the fuel usage may be about the same even with a larger motor, but the mass and weight are going to be substantially higher.

I do a lot of welding (for a non-professional welder). I use an inverter welder that is connected to the powerline. I switch between TIG, MIG, Stick, anb other types of welding as I need to. The same power supply is also a 60A plasma cutter. I can attach it to my generator and it will do most welding that I need done up to about 120A. I have never turned the power beyond that when I have been on the genset. The same inverter pulls about 50A at full power, so it would exceed the capacity of my genset by about 25%.

My point here is that I don't want to change what I need for welding to have a single unit that can also provide backup power. Murf and Tom also make good points.






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 11-14-2003, 16:14 Post: 68762
harvey



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 motor driven welder gen

It's a thought provoking issuse here at the house but for different reasons. The FAO (Finiance & Accounting Officer who also BTW heads up the War Department) is not a happy camper with the $6000 outlay. When a $2000 PTO will do the job. And she does not see a problem with me taking stuff to work or bringing one home... Of course she has just spent $19,000 for another embriodery machine and upgrading software, plus I have to remodel her shop by going into downstairs space adding more room to her shop. GO FIGURE!

I keep most of my seasonal toys in my heated shop. So starting would be a small concern. Plus I want diesel because I have a heating tank full of fresh fuel all the time.

I do not weld professionally or claim to be a welder but I do a project as needed here #1 because I can not justify the money for some one else to do it. #2 I can do it EXACTLY the way I want it. #3 nobody in their right mind would work with some of the stuff I can come up with because of libality fears.

As I look at the comments I am still trying to justify it but am having trouble with the process and cost which means I need to step back and re look.

Thanks for the input. It is appreciated. Harvey






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 11-14-2003, 16:31 Post: 68766
AC5ZO

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My wife also has one of those CNC computers that happens to sew fabric. She has it connected to the Internet and can embroider any picture that she can download. It was worth the cost, because things like tractors and ham radio equipment don't seem so out of line.

I don't know your tractor HP, but a PTO generator of 16KW should supply power for most welders, if you need to do the occasional "portable" job. As far as welders are concerned, the Millers referred to by Tom are good units.

I have Miller, Lincoln and Powcon in different places. My favorite is the Powcon, but they were bought out a few years ago and are not common any more. The Powcon is a 225 amp DC welder that can do TIG, MIG and Stick from a single power supply by just switching modes. It also has a setting to drive a plasma torch which I use a lot. The Powcon welder is about the size of a suitcase and weighs less than 100 pounds. It draws 50A or about 12KW at full load. It only draws 35A if you generate three phase.






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 11-14-2003, 17:59 Post: 68772
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I was looking also at fuel consumption. My 35 hp JD will suck 2gph at full load. The miller will suck 1gph. The unit has all the basic bells and whistles that I am smart enought to use and a few I'm not like TIG. And the next point is how often will I need it?

The miller will do 9500 watts continous 19hp Kobota liquid cooled diesel. Link at bottom

I've been looking at PTO for a long time and am really comfortable going down that path. But was thinking how nice it would be to have a nice welder with a 100% duty cycle in all aspects except 28v mig and gen that would handle the house.

So if I buy PTO gen and seperate 50amp welder with 100% duty cycle I'm still in at 5+ grand, me thinks.

I hate mental masturbation...

What kind of machine does your wife have?? We're using 2 SWF 1501's and the Daystar 5 software.






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 11-15-2003, 08:37 Post: 68811
TomG

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Good luck with this one. I remember it well when I got my 1710 (my pet parrot I suppose). I rationalized the thing for several months and frequently engaging my wife in one-sided conversations. She finally said 'Stop trying to justify it. If you want it you want it and that's value in itself. The money's there so don't worry about it. That's what it took to get me to shut up.

On the other side, some people I knew were on-air radio/TV types. The one was turfed--a frequent happening in the buz. He started distributing cell phone and service which worked out OK but not nearly as OK as his wife's embroidery buz. They both got real busy--him in part at his wife's buz. So busy that when the station tried to hire him back (the program manager guessed wrong about the ratings) he didn't care about the job until a much better deal was offered.






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 11-15-2003, 16:35 Post: 68842
harvey



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The estate thing is kinda funny. I've told my boys they'll have to divide up toys cause I'm not leaving any money.

I am my own worse enemy I will part with a buck in a heartbeat if it is something that we need and it carries its own weight. But if it's something I want but don't really need, oh boy here I go...

AC5Z0 has a couple of excellent points, as well as others. The smart thing is seperate units. PTO gen 20+kw and look for a good line stick welder that will support mig if I ever get around to that option.

That is the nice thing about this media different unattached thoughts on how to skin a cat.

The embroidery thing is a very good self supporting hobbie at this point. It pays for its self and gets us to Atlantic City once a year.

The real benny is I can do almost anything I want for designs, I NEVER THOUGHT I'D SEE THE DAY I HAD TOO MANY HATS... but it has happened.

I'll let you know how it turns out in a week or so my waiting and cooling period.






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 11-16-2003, 11:13 Post: 68896
AC5ZO

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My wife has a Bernina machine with all the bells and whistles and their software. There is a Compaq computer connected to it full time. I don't know much more about it than that. The only time I go into that room is if something needs fixin'. I get hats and shirts with my ham radio call sign embroidered onto them for my trouble. Wink yeah right

Re: 100% duty cycle welders are generally only required for machine welding and robotic applications. You want to get the best duty cycle that makes sense economically, but 60% to 75% is usually good enough at the highest amperage settings. It is good to have 100% in the 150 amp range.

Re: fuel usage is going to be nearly proportional to generator demand. Your tractor may use 2 GPH at full load, but that will generate 17KW or better with your tractor. A more normal load from a house is about 4 KW with excursions upto about 10KW. Your tractor may very well be in the 1 GPH range with that kind of load.






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