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8x56mn
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 167 Watkins Glen NY
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2007-12-10          149153

I have a B2150 with modified turf tires (R4's), I believe you call them. I would like to put chains on the back. Do they make chains for tractor tires that are not agg tires?

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DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
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2007-12-10          149155

R4 Industrial
R3 Turf

There are probably some other variants of these but the codes above are the standards.

For most uses 4WD tractors work fine without chains.

Try tirechains.com ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-12-10          149164

Just a word of advice here though.

Tire chains are only for the REAR tires, not all four.

Best of luck. ....

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8x56mn
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 167 Watkins Glen NY
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2007-12-10          149170

Yes thank you, I understand that you should not put chains on the front, as the gears are not robust eneough. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-12-10          149176

It's not a matter of robust, the front axle is usually turning at about 5% faster than the rear does.

If you use chains, or even drive in 4WD on a hard surface where the tire can't slip, you will cause a lot of unnecessary wear & tear on the drive train and tires.

A large city near here had a fleet of small 4WD CUTS for clearing the snow on sidewalks, etc., but also used them for grass work in the summer. The people in the purchasing dept. decided the proper sized turf tires to match the rears (212/80-15's) were too expensive, so they used 205/80-15 car tires instead, saved them $50 a tire.

Within a year every tractor had only 2WD, the center gears were all shot from screwing up the lead in the front gear ratio.

Best of luck. ....

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auerbach
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2168 West of Toronto
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2007-12-10          149196

Any tractor dealer that does tires or tire dealer that does tractors can fix you up. I use chains on all four for snow pushing and haven't had any trouble yet, but it's only been 30 years. But I never use 4WD unless there's slippage. ....

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daveinnh
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 30 central NH
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2007-12-16          149357

Murf

Have you tried installing chains on all 4 tires and had problems?

I have ag tires on a L4310 and it usually works good, except on ice - and it's sleeting now in central NH. ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-12-17          149366

Dave, we have a few machines that live up in the lake country for the winter clearing private lanes, some of them are a few miles long.

All of those machines are chained (with v-bar style ice chains) on all 4 wheels, but only because of the extreme conditions and the lack of a hard surface to create gear binding problems.

Best of luck. ....

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2007-12-17          149367

Dave see my pic #9. I do a couple drives backing up them that require all 4 chained up

Many times I do not run fronts. But with bucket on I can install them in 5 minutes. Rear chains stay on all winter if I have to put them on. They, rears, weight over 100#s each. There is a lot of iron in them...Homemade... x links every other side link heavy duty truck and grader chain.

They, fronts, are only on in the extreme conditions. Typically I can wind up the drive line tighter in the summer doing dirt work then I can on ice and snow even with chains. ....

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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 542 Quarryville PA
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2007-12-21          149512

When I need chains, I only chain up the front see picture 12. The caution is the clearance for tie rod ends and steering cylinders. The chains are light, cheap and very easy to install with the loader on. I get extremely good traction and have never needed more. In 2 wheel drive the tractor barely moves if I am lucky so the rear isn't doing much anyway. It rarely is on my tractor. When really using the loader, the rear is so light it slides down hills, won't dig, etc in 2 WD. Both rears are filled with calcium. The front does most of the work and carries most of the weight, more than the back ever has as I have never wheelied but have rode on just the front. It just shows how backward most of America's tractors are. We put the light duty axle with the pizza cutter tires up front where the weight and traction is. ....

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kleinchris
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 269 Westminster, Texas
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2007-12-21          149518

I had a few minutes to kill the other day so I stopped in my local JD dealer to price a 3000 serries (with hydrostatic tran) and talk prices. Eventually, the sales guy said he would throw some tire chains into the package if I were to buy from them. Both fronts and rears. And that got me thinking about a few different people here that have mentioned not using chains on the front. So, if these chains are bad for the front of the machine, why would JD (or Frontier) make them? It seems like they would be asking for warranty arguements in the future.

....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2007-12-21          149543

It's complicated, but let's see if I can explain it in simple (read: less than a page) terms.

First off, it's not BAD for the machine for the front to have traction, but it is VERY bad for both the front and rear to have no slippage at all when it is in 4WD.

In order for the tractor to handle properly the engineers that designed it made it such that the front axle is turning about 5% faster than the rear does when you drive around in 4WD.

So if there is not at least a 5% wheel slip on either the front or rear axle, or a combination of the two, there will be a tremendous load put onto the gearing in the drive line.

The concept of tire chains is that they make the wheels bite even better than usual so you have to be careful when using them because they can do exactly what you want to, give you too MUCH traction. ;)

Best of luck. ....

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kleinchris
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 269 Westminster, Texas
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2007-12-21          149553

So, would it be okay to chain up the fronts, and leave the rears alone? ....

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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
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2007-12-21          149555

The traction a tire develops is based on a LOT of different factors, but high on the list is weight.

A properly ballasted machine will make far better traction that an unloaded machine with better tires.

A big factor in traction, or the lack of traction, with rear tires is their size, if the front tires already have the bulk of the weight, the engine, maybe a FEL, over them, and they have the advantage of being much smaller tires, therefore carrying far more weight PER SQUARE INCH chaining the fronts and not the back makes little sense.

You then basically have a front wheel drive tractor with rear wheel assist.

IMHO, and experience, you will do far better if you are only going to put chains on ONE end, to put them on the rear tires.

Besides, I think you will find rear tire chains at nearly any tractor store, but not fronts. The fronts may be a little cheaper, but probably not much.

Best of luck. ....

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candoarms
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1932 North Dakota
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2008-01-07          150007

Murf,

I agree. Putting chains on the rear tires is the way to go.

Most tractors have a rear differential lock pedal on them. With chains on the rear it's possible to lock the rear differential and then have both rear tires pulling at the same time. This is when chains really shine!

The front axle does not have a differential lock. Therefore, only one tire is biting at any given time, and it's usually the tire with the LEAST amount of grip that's turning.

Even in 4-wheel drive, a tractor is really only powering two wheels....one in front, and one in the rear. The other two are slipping, due to the slip design engineered into the differentials.

Engage the rear differential lock, and then watch what a set of chains can do. It's amazing, especially with the proper amount of weight attached to the rear hitch -- such as a snowblower, or a set of counter weights.


Joel ....

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denwood
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 542 Quarryville PA
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2008-01-10          150125

Chaining the back is the best when you have a 2wd tractor ;), probably a 4wd tractor with no FEL, but until you have tried a CUT with FEL chained only on the front, no life experience or honest opinons are as good as going out and doing it. I have and do and it is wonderfully easy, cheaper, and offers better traction. I always play the game of resisting engaging 4wd until I think I need it and even on dry pavement last week with the differential locked and a couple logs on the forks the tractor would not back up a very slight incline in 2wd. It is properly ballasted but no 3 point weight as I was towing the wood cart back after I moved a few logs. Chains are all about PSI. You have to force the chain into the surface to get traction. If steel offered good traction via friction it would be news to me. So putting chains up front where all the weight is and concentrating it further by ridiculously small tires makes chains work in frozen conditions. Also they are on the steering end for added ease in turning. I have logged many hours with rear chains on a tractor and I usually end up brake steering quite a bit. Truck v-bar chains for the front could cost around $50 for a 16 inch rim, rears could be $150 for ratty ones that drop between the treads to $450+ for top of the line. check web site link. ....


Link:   chains

 
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Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2008-01-10          150126

Quote:
Originally Posted by denwood | view 150125
... on dry pavement last week with the differential locked and a couple logs on the forks the tractor would not back up a very slight incline in 2wd. It is properly ballasted but no 3 point weight ...
Denwood, while I appreciate your comments, it doesn't change a few things either.

First and foremost, as has been mentioned already, not only are chains on the front wheels a PITA, and they can only affect one wheel at best, but they CAN lead to some real damage.

But I also want to point out a glaring error in your post.




For 'proper ballasting' on a tractor of your size, with almost anything on the FEL, you would need +1,000 (more likely 2,000) pounds on the 3pth.

So, was it properly ballasted, or did you have nothing on the 3pth, and a load on the FEL?

The bottom line, if you had NO traction on the rear wheels, even with the diff. lock engaged on dry pavement, the rear of your tractor weighed ZERO.

That was the problem, not the chains or lack thereof.

Best of luck. ....

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pelletfarmer
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 14 Central Michigan
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2008-01-10          150136

"First off, it's not BAD for the machine for the front to have traction, but it is VERY bad for both the front and rear to have no slippage at all when it is in 4WD."

How about when there is slippage? I've got a JD4320 HST and not a drop of flat terrain. I'm on sand or snow only except when I pull out of the barn, and I do loader and scraper work. Is it a big mistake to just leave it in 4WD like some of the guys (now including me!) do around here? Thanks very much. jk
....

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hardwood
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3583 iowa
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2008-01-10          150139

I'm just wondering about you guys who have chains on a the Deere Compacts. My 4310 has almost no clearance between the inside of the rear tires, (R-4), and the fender. Do you put a spacer between the hub and the wheel to generate enough clearance for the chain. In my mind I can just see the chain tearing the plastic fender to shreds. To be 100% honest, I've never saw enough need for chains on snow, ice, or whatever to make them worth the bother, I'll admit I do slip and slide around some, but not enough to put up with the rough ride of chains. I asked the local Deere dealer about chains the other day. His comment was that he has never sold a set of chains, front or rear for a compact, and really doesn't want to. ....

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harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
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2008-01-11          150152

Frank

When my rear wheels were in the narrow position. There was not room enough for chains. I switched the wheels side to side to gain clearance. I do not operate hi speed with chains my max speed is about 6-8MPH other wise chains will hit the fender once they come over the top and start down. I do not use bungie straps on chains. Chains must be able to move on the tires, especially the R4 and R1's.

Last year I did not use chains at all. This year with the heavy wet rain soaked snow I could not hardly move. Chains are on the rear only at this time. The clearance on the fronts is not good and I have ripped the tie rod boot but greasing often keeps dirt out.

When I chain all four up it is because of extreme conditions and I am not the least bit concerned about the drive line. There is slippage enough.

As I said B4 I can wind up the driveline tighter doing dirt work with the Backhoe on then I have ever done in the winter on ice and snow.

I have stuck tractor in mud and snow were I could not chain the rears and only chained the fronts to be able to get out (nobody around to pull me out). I am not sure why I would want to run fronts only, unless I had a front wheel drive car.

Harvey ....

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