Go Bottom Go Bottom

R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
happytractor
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2006-09-24          135409

I have just purchased a TC26DA New Holland. I had the r4 tires installed as thought it was needed for the loader use. I do a lot of mowing and experienced major problems with these tires skiding the grass and literaly tearing up the grass. I purchased this tractor for multable use reasons. The mower appears to work beautifully, but the front tractor wheels just seem to plow the sod up and of course some tracts from rear tires. I had traded in my JD 455 diesel with turf tires and no problems in any weather conditions. Please give me your comments and or experience and suggestions with this problem.

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-24          135411

Are you mowing in four wheel drive? Does it stop at slower speeds? ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-24          135413

I am running turf on the front and R4 on the rear. The turf for the 955 fit the same rims. I don't have any problems but my soil is a heavy clay. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
bloggins
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 104 Kingston, Ontario
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-24          135415

Does your tractor have the NH Sensa-Trac 4WD? If so, maybe its engaging prematurely. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-24          135418

happy: From what I can see on the NH web site, you don't have Sensitrac; I assume you have either 4x4 or 2wd mode choices? Sounds like it it's in 4x. The way to tell is jack up the front end and see if one or both wheels turn hard or with some resistance. If it is in 4x and the lever says 2wd, maybe it is a linkage adjustment issue. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
happytractor
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2006-09-24          135419

No,I am using two wheel drive. Our soil is a heavy clay also,but I never had this problem with the John Deere although it only weighed about 1,100 lbs.including the mower deck verses about 2,000 lbs. with the New Holland. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
DennisCTB
Join Date: Nov 1998
Posts: 2707 NorthWest NJ
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-24          135420

You can tear up the turf even with turf style tires if you turn too sharp and too fast. The extra weight of your new tractor is also an issue, you need to be more careful than you were with the smaller rig.

Making sure your ground is dry will also help minimize tracking, and you might look at the tire infation to try different settings. But while R4's can work on grass "turf" tires are somewhat better and you may ultimately want to switch. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
happytractor
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2006-09-24          135421

In responce to your using turf tires on the front I assume with the R4 on the rear you do not get as much or any scuffing of the grass and soil? I also have a feeling that the weight has much to do also in my case with the TC26DA. It is about 2,000 lbs. including the mower verses about 1,000 with the JD 455 including the deck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-24          135423

happy: It sounds like that indirectly it's the weight but only to the extent you can't take corners like you may have been able to with a much lighter machine--I call it "go-carting". Like Dennis suggested, just slow down a bit. I can get my 3000lb. TC33D going sideways around a corner on wet grass if I tried and it does have Sensitrac---there is so much momentum ad inertia in a heavier vehicle of any type that it just isn't reasonable to expect the front tires to pick up the slack and grip. It's sort of like driving on ice--if you take it slow you can turn.

Do you have a differential lock that is either activated by foot or lever? If you do and you are using it---don't. All that will do is make the CUT go straight until the front wheels do grip. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-24          135426

I'd be curious as to the toe-in being set right. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-24          135427

My 750 had turf on all 4 corners and my 955 has turf only on the front. The 750 was a little heavier. If I run on a side hill the R4 on the rear will slide while the fronts remain in steady. Neither had problems digging up the grass unless I was going far too fast. The only thing R4 are better for is the mud and if you have a lot then you are better with R1. The R4/Turf is a compromise, but seems to work O.K. The 955 is 2200 without the loader. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-24          135433

The R-4's by design are made to to slip sideways since the were designed primarily for skid steers (a.k.a. bobcats) so that they don't peel the tire off the rim when it turns or as the name implies skid steers. I have R-4's on my NH and they offer excellent traction in a variety of conditions except deep mud with no bottom.

Someone said they have R-4's and turfs on the same machine. On 4WD machines, if the tires do not meet mfg. specs as far as their exact circumference (within a certain tolerance) driveline binding will occur which is detremental to the overall life of the machine. Using the tire's specs displayed on the tire is itself is not an accurate measure of the actual tire when comparing specs, unless you are replacing the same exact brand and tire size as it came from the factory. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
happytractor
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2006-09-24          135441

Thanks for the input to all and I have been going much slower now although the weight increase of the TC26DA is obviously contributing to more tracting even on the straight runs. Since we have had so much wet weather all year this is something I may have to contend with. Eventually the ground may compact more or I will have to roll it. Over all this tractor ssems to be well built with plenty of grease fittings which I like. Have to be more cautious on the slopes though and the two brake pedals should be moved to the left side and the clutch on the right. Then they could be used individually to stop one rear wheel from spinning and making turning easier. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-24          135442

Happy, the NH site says your machine is only hydrostatic so you shouldn't be using the clutch. Art made an observation and I'm curious too that the tracor is tearing up the lawn even going straight---shouldn't do that even in 4wd. If you drive the machine on a clean cement driveway look for black rubber deposits from scuffing on the pavement both in 2wd and 4wd. Deposits should be minimal. You could have a badly aligned toe-in condition and that's why it tearing up the lawn. Or you could have a bad bearing(s) and the tires are toeing out. Also, if that checks out ok, the tire sizes might be wrong and the lighter front end's tires are spinning faster than they should. Also, rear tires underinflated will cause this too. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-25          135456

Are you mowing with the FEL installed? ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-25          135457

I have scanned the ethereal vapors and found the source of the problem here..

Your old green tractor was in harmonic convergence with your lawn.

Tear up the old sod and re-seed with Bluegrass and all will be in cosmic balance. OOOOOMMMMMM. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
oneace
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1490 south central pa
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-25          135460

What type of grass do you need for an orange tractor. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
AnnBrush
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 463 Troy OH
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-25          135461

That would be Kukuyu (Actually spelled Kikuyu) ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-25          135462

I had some actual, serious technical ideas, but after Marks comment I just didn't have the heart to ruin such a well thought-out tongue-in-cheek commentary such as that.

Luckily for Happy he didn't buy a Cub compact though, his meesus probably wouldn't like the look of the new lawn.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-25          135464

Thanks Ann.

My caffeine levels have dropped and I won't be able to contact the ethereal vapors until tomorrow morning(that's the same as vapours in Murf-land). ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-26          135473

Back to the grind. What does the lawn look like for MF or Case? Red clover?

The landscaper that I bought the tractor from purchased the turf tires. I have one R4 not on the rim. I think he tore a tire and replaced it with the turfs. I am sure this was at the dealer knowing the landscaper. The turfs and the R4 are the same diameter. I have no problems shifting into and out of 4X. My 750 with all turfs was more problematic. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-26          135474

On solid ground the mismatch of tires is probably not a problem. If the tractor was to be working on soft ground and the rears going into the ground with the cleats you would notice a change. For some uses this set-up is ok but on others it could be costly. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-26          135480

The bars on these particular R4 are wide and not very deep. The are really not much value it essentually rides on the top. The front's bars are about the same depth as the turf tread. I really don't see any evidence of wind up. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
happytractor
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2006-09-26          135481

To all who have responded,thanks about what I felt and is a problem with the R4 tires. I can see for sure that the tractor weight is also a problem as I stated on the straight runs the tires leave tracks obviously from the weight,2000lbs.sinking in to some extent. Now my next question is would the turf tires be any less of a problem? There are occassions when I would need to use the loader and a rototiller though. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-27          135495

Since the vapours seem to have cleared now, even up here in Murf-land, LOL.

I would be looking at the tire pressures first off. Since you are getting tracking from a straight line run, and you say the soil is fairly heavy clay-based soil, the machine should not be digging in.

If however, the tires are over-inflated, the entire weight of the machine will be sitting on just the center 1/3rd (?) of the tread, causing the tire to sink in much further than it would if the weight were properly spread across the entire width of the tread.

A good bit of the scuffing is, IMHO, caused by the steering geometry, when you turn sharply one tire is trying to turn sharper than the other since it is turning a different radius. The tighter you turn the more pronounced this effect becomes.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-27          135496

My experience is that I have a Cadet Compact with turf tires.

It weighs approx. 2600 lbs. before adding on the loader. I can drive on a wet lawn leaving virtually no track indentations. My tractor is unique in that it has really wide/large front tires which helps to disperse the weight but can also handle the weight of a full bucket. I also can pull a single bottom plow but with some traction difficulties in hard clay going about 6-7 inches deep. I also feel turfs give better grip on snow.

Most of the guys on this board prefer R4's over R3's (turfs) but not me.

If I get another tractor some day it will be with turfs, however, I'll remove the standard front tires and rims, widen the rims and buy another set of wide front turf tires. I'm lucky that I work at a shop that can build nearly anything and do as I please. P.S. I would widen the rims such that the extra width goes outward, not reducing the clearance between tire inner wall and tractor. That also gives it a better stance. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-27          135499

Yooper: By stance do you mean stability? If yes, widening the front rims or the axle, or both does nothing to increase stability, unless you have an independent front suspension, or, there is mechanical force applied at at least one side of the axle. And if you increase the rim width or change anything from factory-build you are changing the steering characteristics, which is of the Ackerman type, i.e. each wheel follows it's own radius. Also, you are putting more leverage on the bearings. And with that, bump-steer will be an issue depending on the extent of widening. Going with a wider tire on a factory rim or one that has a custom offset porportionally identical to the factory one may be a reasonable suggestion. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-27          135500

Back in my tire store days we used to install a lot of reverse offset wheels on lowriders (hey, they paid for it!). Those guys were frying wheel bearings right and left due to the extra bearing load. I don't imagine a 1-2 inch increase in the offset would do too much harm but I wouldn't go six inches with it. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
yooperpete
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1413 Northern Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-27          135501

By better stance, I wasn't maybe articulate.

It seems to smooth out transitions in grade, like when you drive crossways across a plowed furrow or have a loader bucket full of dirt and you drive diagonally over a city curb. It all translate back to the center of the tractor where it pivots (i.e. a wider stance and tire means the pivot angle is slightly less), but seems to me to ride over it easier.

Earthworks is correct that it really doesn't improve stability.

For some stupid reason all the tractor manufacturers usually put 8.50 wide turf tires in the front on tractors of the 26-33 HP range. You can blow these out real easy when using a loader. Mine has 10.50 wide tires.

I was looking a JD's sometime ago and saw this, noticed the next size up tractor used 10.50 of the same diameter (that didn't help since they have a wider loader bucket and heavier lift capacity thus blowing them out also). Believe they had the same rim mounting bolt pattern and possibly could have just bought another tire and rim set. Spreading the tire centers another inch or two won't hurt the bearings at all, 6 inches or so isn't good. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-27          135503

Yooper you are not imagining things when you say it rides better across city curbs (errRR? you must be a city worker---"so?..ain't mine" LOL) And it does go back to the pivot point. Like on walking beam semi-tractor and trailer suspensions, and on motor (road) graders generally speaking if the front-most wheel drops say, several inches and the rear hasn't dropped yet, the machine itself will only drop only about half (within certain dimensions of wheel spacing along the beam---the shorter the beam the more the machine is effected by wheel drop-and-raise. SO just like your example of widening the front axle essentially, the longer the beam, the less drop and raise will occur. My 2wd backhoe had good offest rims on it and steered great but they were badly dented and pitted. I replaced them with different offset rims (maybe 1-1/2" - 2") from a skid steer and it handles terribly---bump steer being the biggest problem. Also, (excessive) widening of the stance of vehicles like tractors with a pivoting axle will lead to (possibly) excessive leverage on the center pivot and bushings. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



R4 tire tears scuffs turf lawn

View my Photos
Art White
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6898 Waterville New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2006-09-27          135508

The king pin bushings or bearings will take the bulk of the stress from widening the wheel stance. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


  Go Top Go Top

Share This
Share This







Member Login