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Help needed in deciding what size and type of compact tractor to buy

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David
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1999-10-08          8627

I am completely new to the world of tractors and the joys of home ownership. I have a 3 acre yard that is a mixture of wooded lot and areas of grass. The whole lot is on a slope of varying gradient probably form 10 to 22 degrees. My main objectives for any machine would be to be able to mow in the summer and clear snow effectively from a 250 ft surfaced driveway. Over the next few years I intend to re-landscape the lot, clear some of the wooded areas, build a garage into the hillside and build some dry stone walls. I have about $10,000 to spend and could stretch to more if the arguments were good enough to convince my wife! I want to get a compact tractor that is not overkill but would be a good investment to assist in the yard projects. So I am open to advise. Is a compact tractor even the right way to go? I particularly would like to know how many hours is too many on a second hand compact and any recommended second hand dealers.

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dsg
Join Date: Jun 1999
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1999-10-08          8635

Hi David; A compact tractor in the 20 diesel hp range is what you looking for. A John Deere 755, 855 or Kubota B2100 or B2400 would be best for used tractors and you could get those,tractor only,with 1000 hours or less for around 10,000 or less. I have a JD 755. If I had it to do all over again I would buy NEW and get a little larger than I thought I needed. You have 3 acres so you should'nt get much larger than the 20hp range. I have 37 acres and need something in the mid 30's hp range. A top of the line compact tractor with a diesel engine with good maintanence can go for thousands and thousands of hours. If I can help just e-mail me.David ....

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Bird Senter
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1999-10-08          8637

David, I've been trying to decide whether to try to answer you or not because so much depends simply on personal preference. I have 10 acres and used a Kubota B7100 with front end loader, box blade, tiller, and brush hog for 4 years. Kubota now has the B7300 instead of a 7100 and that would probably do what you want to do; however, I traded up to a B2710 this year; primary reason - to get power steering, but the additional power, stability, comfort, and speed of getting the work done is great, also. DSG's answer is good, but a new tractor with front end loader (which I would not be without) will cost more than you mentioned. I would not hesitate to buy a used one with a couple of thousand hours on it, if it had the features I wanted and the price was right, but in my area good used ones are hard to find. Good luck with your shopping. ....

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PaulB
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1999-10-09          8639

David - I guess I disagree a little with your first respondant to get a little more tractor than you think you need. I like small, because it makes a tractor more manuverable, less damaging to the soil, easier to find a place to park it, etc. 3 acres is not a heck of a lot of land, so I would not hesitate to stick with a 16 horsepower machine like the Kubota B7300 mentioned by Bird. A new one with loader will run about 11,500 - 12,000, and add another almost 2,000 for a mower. I have a 1700 which is similar, but with 17 horsepower and power steering. I have a 10 acre horse farm, and the convenience of small size greatly outweighs the few instances where I wish I had more power.Good luck,PaulB ....

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Ray C.
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1999-10-09          8649

I also disagree with your first respondent. At least in this case. I've certainly heard many people on this board wish they had bought a larger tractor, and they were probably correct, but you've only got three acres If you move and end up with 20 or 30 acres you WILL want a larger machine.I have 3 acres and bought a '96 JD755 with about 400 hours on it.It was and is in almost perfect condition. Mine came with a loader, 4 wd,ps, 3 point hitch, ballast box, and turf tires. Paid about 12,000.00 It's big enough for anything I'll need to do on three acres. I agree with Paul on all the other advantages.I would suggest, if looking at compacts in this range, and you intend to use a loader, to get the 4 wd. The 2wd with loaders, in my opinion are almost useless.4wd will give you a lot more ooomph when you need it! Also don't know if you've given it much thought, but the 755 I purchased came with hydrostatic trans. This means no shifting gears. One pedal for forward, one for reverse. There are certainly people on this board that like them and those that don't. And both sides have some valid points. For my 2 cents worth, I wasn't looking for a hydrostatic trans, but this tractor was so nice and cared for I decided to buy it. I'm really glad I did. Makes it a very easy to operate machine.Hope this helps. If you need more info...e-mail me. ....Ray ....

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Bird Senter
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1999-10-09          8651

David, these discussions can be very interesting and informative. As I said before, much depends on personal preference; some say get a little bigger than you need, some say stay with the small one. It's kind of like these blasted computers; if you know exactly what you are going to do with it, you buy a machine to do that; no problem. But I've never known of anyone yet with a computer who didn't find additional things they wanted to do, after they got it (this is my 6th one). I think the same holds true for tractors. When I bought the B7100, I thought I was buying my only tractor for life to take care of my 10 acres. I didn't know my brother would later buy 10 acres down the road from me (solid timber that had to be cleared to build a house), that he'd need my help and my tractor to dig a foundation, then to backfill around the foundation, do the landscaping, etc., or that I'd spend two days pulling a hay rake for a neighbor whose brand X tractor broke down, or that the 27 acres next door would sell to someone who only comes out in the country about one weekend every couple of months, and wants me to help take care of his place, and several other little things like that. And I, also, was not looking for a hydrostatic transmission, but bought one and now would not even consider anything else. Whew, I sometimes get long winded! Just try out a few tractors, find one that "feels" right to you, and if you KNOW what you'll be using it for, that's the right one. ....

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mario
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1999-10-10          8660

Hi DavidI looked long and hard for a used machine and could not find anything. Most good machines bring what the owners paid new for them after several years and many hours. If you are like me and run things forever I would pick out a new machine and pay the extra $.. I waisted way too much time looking at used stuff which I could have spent working on the homested.mario ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-10-11          8685

I agree with most things said, therefore I'm not going to rehash things. We have 2 acres, 1 acre sloped/wooded, 1 acre open/flat/clear. I absolutely love the 20HP JD4100. Naturally, it would be nice to have 25hp in the 4100 frame. "I" personally wouldn't go smaller than 20hp, mainly because the 16-17hp units are basically sized the same as the 20's. Do you need that extra hp?? maybe...maybe not. My view has always been to have a "little" extra, rather than constantly be pushing things to the limit. I also had a very tough time trying to find "good" used stuff, not to mention the 4100 is a new model. Unlike cars, tractors really hold there value if properly maintained. No one can decide for you, but my personal advice: 20-25hp range, Hydro, Loader. BTY: the JD4100 doesn't support a back-hoe. Something to consider if future plans would ever call for it. In my case, I could hire someone for a while before I would break even. Not to mention storage and maintainance. ....

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PaulB
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1999-10-11          8690

Not owning a 4100 I really don't have to know, but exactly why can't you put a 3 point mount backhoe on it? I can understand that JD doesn't make a subframe, and they may not RECOMMEND a backhoe, but won't a category 1 3 point mount bachhoe fit ANY tractor with a standard category 1 setup? I thought that was the beauty of the Harry Ferguson system - universal fit. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-10-12          8705

Paul,I suspect other readers on this board are more knowledgable to the exact reasoning. From everything I've gathered, it has to do with the 4100 having a cast aluminum tranny housing. This combination appearantly cannot handle the torsional stress a backhoe places on the unit, even 3pt hook ups. Obviously you can physically install a 3pt BH unit, but JD will void your warranty for doing so. I guess JD wants you to go for at least the 26HP unit if you need a BH. ....

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HWD
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1999-10-12          8713

Nowhere in the JD 4100 warranty does it say the warranty will be voided if a backhoe is installed on the tractor. ....

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MichaelSnyder
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1999-10-12          8715

HWD,I cannot disagree with you, and you are probably right. I haven't read the 4100 warranty statement myself. I am going strictly on statements from other readers who have run into this sorta thing with owning a 4100. I think my dealer made that statement as well, but I don't want to put words in his mouth either. At any rate, I stand corrected. ....

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Roger L.
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1999-10-12          8725

I think that the other readers got their impression of backhoe suitability from reading JD's own promotional literature. In it you will notice that the various tractors are listed right along with their matching attachments. The 4100 uses a special small loader and does not have an independent PTO (gear drive). This is fair, as JD uses the word "economical" fairly often when describing this tractor. No backhoe is listed as matching the 4100 (pg 22)- although I couldn't find a reference specifically prohibiting a backhoe. For that matter, no rear blade, flail mower, disk, or sicklebar mower is listed for it either. The three-point capacity is about half that of the 4200....Roger ....

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PaulB
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1999-10-13          8733

Kubota lists an applicable backhoe even for the B7300, which is 16 horsepower. It seems to me that, especially after the warranty period is up, the 4100 should have an easier time managing a bakhoe than the smaller Kubota. I bet it is more of a liability thing than a real limitation of the machine. For my education, can ANYONE really explain the difference between "live" and "independant" pto? Even if you have a nonlive, transmission driven pto, isn't there a 2 stage cluth to allow use of the pto with the tractor stationary ( i.e. as when using a post hole digger ), or is hydro a MUST for this application?Thanks for your teachings,PaulB ....

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Randy
Join Date: Feb 2002
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1999-10-13          8734

Here we go,Live pto is a broader term which means tractor motion can stop without the pto stopping. But, to get the implement to stop the tractor must stop. This usually is accomplished by a two stage foot clutch, which when pushed in half way the transmission clutch engages and when pushed in the rest of the way the pto clutch engages. Independent pto, on the other hand, has no connection to the transmission. You can start and stop the pto or the tractor without one affecting the other. In most instances live is ok but say you are going out through the yard and want to engage the mower. With live pto you must stop the tractor but with independent you do not. Also, with a "nonlive" pto there is only one clutch. Live and independent have two.Hope it helpsRandy ....

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art
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1999-10-13          8735

Paul, its easiest to explain that with a (true) independent pto you only need to move a lever. Not to get lost here but it wasn't long ago that one of the manufacter's advertised a shuttle transmission that was just because they had reverse and a forward gear inline to shift between. The live pto system is a two step system needing the clutch to be depressed. Many of the tractors today are calling the pto systems in there hydro tractors independent. I do not put that into the same catagory as I do my farm tractors which we sell. What I believe they are refering to in there reference to independent is the ability to change direction with out interrupting the pto speed. Many of the new tractors are using a overrunning clutch on a live system such as on the L2500 kubotas and the new JD,s. This is allowing the system to free wheel so you can still change directions or speeds in the transmission and not totally stop the deck or pto. A two stage clutch is also refered to as a independent pto it is not as user freindly as what I refer to as a true independent pto but it does not stop the pto unless you depress the petal fully. True independent pto's are available in some larger compact tractors but not all. The hydro is still not heaven sent for you needs if it means digging post holes. The best you can do is make a list of all things you need to do (not just want) and see how the tractors you like do them. Now is the time because the right purchase now means years of fun and enjoyment. I do hope this helps you. ....

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Randy
Join Date: Feb 2002
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1999-10-13          8738

Paul,You are incorrect about the JD compacts. All the 4000 series models except the 4100 have true independent PTO regardless of hydro or gear transmission. There is one lever to engage the pto without touching the foot clutch in any way. I farmed for many years and know the difference between live, independent, and transmission driven. Independent is definately the best of the three.Randy ....

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Randy
Join Date: Feb 2002
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1999-10-13          8739

Sorry, that should be art. ....

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art
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1999-10-13          8742

Thanks Randy, I know that, just didn't get that complete on that issue sorry about that. That feature is new to deere and I'm glad to see them with it. ....

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MichaelSnyder
Join Date: Jun 1999
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1999-10-13          8743

Roger,Just an add on to your posting.For readers not familiar with the 4100, the hydro model has Independent PTO, the gear model does not. I agree with the economical part of the 4100, that is what attracted someone like me. Who needs more than a little XYZ brand $899 lawn mower, but much less than a big, heavy work horse tractor. Only having 2 acres, even the 4100 may seem like overkill. But the fact that I have been able to cut almost 2 hours off my mowing time, compared to our little 12hp unit. Plus I almost wish I had more to mow, because I love using this tractor makes it all worth it. OMO(Only My Opinion) ....

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PaulB
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1999-10-13          8752

Randy - thanks for the excellent explanation. I may be spoiled, but it seems to me that there is little reason to buy a machine today without a true independent pto, as it is available on almost every machine I looked at ( 16 - 20 hp catagory ). Maybe the bigger machines with bigger loads use other systems which are less convenient but superior in some other way, I don't know. again, thanks for the info.PaulB ....

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Roger L.
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1999-10-13          8758

I think that attachment use is more related to the strength and design of the rest of the tractor - not just the horsepower. Although it used to be that strength and horsepower went together. The 4100 may represent a change in design philosophy. I don't know this; just speculating. I do know that a light tractor will be flung around by a backhoe but often is not heavy enough to anchor the hoe well enough to put a lot of stress on the tractor.. ..it just won't dig very well. This happens when I take my backhoe off of the 33 hp Yanmar and put it on the 16 hp Yanmar. We discussed live and independent PTO's at length back in May, I think. Maybe you can find it in the archives. It was a VERY good discussion. In short, any PTO will work with the tractor stationary and in neutral. Hydro is not necessary for this. ..................Roger ....

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Roger L.
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1999-10-13          8760

Yep. I've followed your postings for awhile and agree with just about all of them. I believe that you have the perfect application for the 4100 as it is the Cadillac of mowing machines and capable of doing light tractor work as well. I do think that if a person's main application was more in the line of landscaping, loader work, and earth moving that they should be looking at a tractor built with that in mind. In fact, there are less expensive tractors than the 4100 which are probably better suited to heavy three point work. Some of the older Kubotas were real rugged in this way....though not as modern or comfortable as the 4100. I hope your grass is growing real fast! :-) Roger ....

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Duaine
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1999-10-13          8768

This is simple, I do not know if you have a brother, sister, mother or whetever... Buy the tractor for yourself, and for your application. Do not buy it for others. 3 acres = compact. I have the Kubota B7300, with 2.6 acres. On the occation that I think that I wish I had bought larger, my B7300 (with a little inginuity) amazes me and gets the job done. Power steering would be nice, but not worth the big dollars (unless your independantly wealthy). I bought my tractor with loader and backhoe, more will come. My B7300 has in the recent past out-performed a JD855 simalarly equipped in both digging and moving. Buy from a reputable dealer, and you cannot go wrong with Kubota. A B7300 or equivelent should be all you need. Good luck, and happy tractoring. P.S. I am proud of the dealer I dealt with, e-mail me for more info... ....

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hay
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1999-11-03          9382

for what infor you gave i believe that something like a JD870 or JD970 is about right. i maintain about 10 ac. with mine(i have a loader on mine) with no problems. i also cut and rake hay, but don't bale it. the neighbor with his giant(95 hp.) tractor does that. just don't try to tackle big jobs like land clearing(need a dozer for that).i do light comm. bush hog mowing also and i have no problems with my tractor(28 hp.) LOL ....

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