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 03-25-2004, 05:25 Post: 81055
horstuff



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 Small Acreage - New Holland TC24D or Kubota BX23

Hi. I have posted on this before, but I am afraid I may not have been detailed enough. I am trying to decide between a Kubota BX23 and a New Holland TC24D. I know they are two different class or size of machines, but I can see benefits to having either in my situation. A little bit of outside opinion will go a long way right now.

Ok, here goes:

First off, I can't decide if I should get a small tractor that will be the most versatile, or a bigger one that can handle tough jobs, but may not get used in as many areas as a smaller one. I also half think that once I have one of these, I ain't gonna wanna sell it. But, right now, I have to plan on doing that.

I have 1.5 acres, about one acre of which that will be worked/maintained.

My main criteria, at least in theory, is resale value. I want to cover my &#$ by planning on selling it in a year or two. May never happen, but I want to try now to make that as possible as it can be. Obviously, buying a new machine is not the best way to go, pound for dollar. But, because of dealer financing, it may be the only way that I can swing getting one right now, and I absolutely need something right now. If I don't get a move on, I will soon have a weed patch once again on my recently cleared and roughly finished ground (trackhoe is done, left it ready to rock, stick, and rake).

My needs now are:
Cleaning the cleared area by rocking/sticking/raking, moving and spreading maybe 100 yards of topsoil (some on 5' high berms that are narrow and steep), prepping the turf for lawn seed by raking/dragging, spreading and dressing about 50 yards of 5/8"- gravel, moving and spreading about 20 yards of sand in the base of a pond (before the liner is applied), picking up/dragging rocks and cedar stump snags that were unearthed (placing them next to or on the berms or in corners of the yard), maybe digging about 30 fence post holes (that's a maybe, but I think so...), digging up a few small (8"-10" diameter) stumps, moving some ice storm damage into a burn pile (limbs and small stumps), tending the burn pile (small, maybe 8x8x6), a couple of power/water trenches (200' - 300' total), digging holes for nursery-bought trees, and moving maybe 20 yards of ornamental rock around to little islands in the lawn.

I will not be mowing with the tractor. Any grass I have will be ornamental lawn, and I will just buy a rider which will let me bag (from my research, a mid-mount mower for a tractor starts at about $1200.00 new, and a bagger about the same, so it makes no sense to me to pay $2400.00 for something that a riding mower half or two thirds the price will do). I originally thought I would get as small a rig as I could that could still take a backhoe, then put turf tires on it and a mid-mount mower. The more I think about it, the more unsure I am of that logic.

I am absolutely sure I am missing things on the list above, but that is all can I think of right now. Again, these are my immediate needs. Down the road, I know that I will need a rig for something (moving lumber/railroad ties, pulling snags out of the woods, doing something for a friend or neighbor that they may not have the gear to do a certain task Smile

Of the two, the Kubota BX23 seems like the coolest little package, just because it is so unique in that it is small enough to be a lawn tractor, but big enough and versatile enough to do alot of work. You can get damn near any implement for it. Having said that, I started looking at it because I was on the lawn tractor/work rig kick, still trying to kill all birds with one stone. Like I said, I am kind of off that now, but the thing is so intriguing, I want to make sure I don't pass it up in favor of a bigger rig, then decide that it would be the perfect machine to have on small acreage like mine. It would definitely take longer to accomplish my immediate tasks at hand, and it may not be enough machine for some of them, and I may wish to God that I had a bigger machine for some of it, but after the dust cleared, it would be an amazing little thing to have around. BUT... my gut feeling and opinion about the bigger New Holland - it is more of a "real" tractor, with higher ground clearance and overall mammothness. It can haul more dirt in it's bucket, and it is heavier, so it won't cry as much when you task it. Plus, I have always loved the look of it, and I have always wanted one, and would feel quite full of myself riding around on it.

I can see resale value in both machines, each appealing to a different market, although I am not at all clear about which resale market would be bigger here in the Seattle area (it is wet around here, and there are big trees in the woods, and there are alot of 5 acre horse properties).

My gut feelings about both of them:

Kubota BX23 - would appeal to alot of people who don't have major work to do, but rather farm maintenance like moving hay around, and it is small enough to park in a shoebox. It feels solid and well built, smooth operation all the way around.

New Holland TC24D - very cool. I love the color, shape, feel, etc. Felt alot like an old 8N, which is what I cut my tractor teeth on in a previous lifetime (my previous neighbor had one and went out of town for long stretches, leaving me to mow his 5 acres. I loved it).

Tires - Kubota dealer says that calcium in the tires isn't necessary with this rig (just keep the hoe on the back), New Holland dealer says that all their machines have tubes and calcium already in them. As far as tread, I'm thinking about the R4. They seem to be a good compromise and very versatile, but, maybe I am once again trying to kill all birds with one stone and should concentrate on getting a single machine for each job. But, I am also trying to appeal to the largest number of buyers for resale. Aargh...

Of the dealers, at this point, I think I felt that the New Holland dealer knew his stuff best, even though they are a small outfit. Plus, the New Holland dealer offered to let me test the rig at my place. I'm sure there would have been a bit of hard sell once it was sitting on my property, but I appreciated the offer. I guess it was a toss up between both as far as competency. The Kubota dealer was kind of a stereotypical used car salesman type.

Kubota - free warranty work pick up and return.
New Holland - free warranty work pick up and return, charging only if you are in a big hurry and they have to go out of their way (maybe the Kubota dealer is the same, don't know).

Both are 4 wheel drive and are priced with hydrostatic transmission and a backhoe that is sized for the machine (dealer recommended implement, not after-market or too much for the machine). I have not included the price of a rear blade or rear landscape rake - no matter which tractor I go with they are all around $500.00, so I am omitting them from the comparison to keep it simple. The prices below are for TLB (Tractor, Loader, Backhoe). The financing for both can be 3 years no interest or 5 years at 3.9% or so, and everything in between. Prices do not include tax. They both have free initial setup and delivery. The only problem with either of them financing wise is that the Kubota requires 10% down. That will take away from my seed money, which is very tight indeed. The New Holland requires no down.

I know I am comparing totally different beasts, and each may be in a different class of machine, hence the price spread. I'm not sure exactly how different the machines are, but as you can see, my objective and best course of action is pretty unclear to me now, hence this request for a reality check.

KUBOTA BX23 - $15,000
NEW HOLLAND TC24D - $22,500

Any thoughts you all may have on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks very, very much in advance.

Bobby






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 03-25-2004, 09:17 Post: 81073
cobratodd



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 Small Acreage - New Holland TC24D or Kubota BX23

Bobby,
I just went through a similar exercise.
I ended up buying the TC24D from Tarheel.
Could find a better price or easier person to work with.
I went with the TC24D, gear drive, mid PTO, 60"MMM by NH, a RHINO FEL, and a post hole digger w/12" auger.
$300 down because I wanted the 24D and not the DA which they didn't have, but was able to get from another dealer.
0% interest for 12 months, and delivery from NC to CT.
Around $16,000 door to door.
I felt that the NH had more strenghts for the money.
Just my $.02 worth.






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 03-25-2004, 19:48 Post: 81139
oneace

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 Small Acreage - New Holland TC24D or Kubota BX23

first let me say that the company i work for sells both
nh dose not recomend fluid in the tires of class 1 tractors becaus of the drain on the hp. we just sold a bx with a hoe and fel i laughed at it the only thing it looked like it could do is clean out a cat litter box it turn id go with the bigger tractor






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 03-25-2004, 19:50 Post: 81140
oneace

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 Small Acreage - New Holland TC24D or Kubota BX23

and 22,000 sounds a littel high try checking anouther dealer how much is the hoe i know with just the fel and tractor is around 15,500






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 03-26-2004, 05:28 Post: 81177
TomG

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 Small Acreage - New Holland TC24D or Kubota BX23

One size doesn't usually fit all in tractors. There always will be jobs for small engine stuff and for contractors. My object was choosing a tractor that grabs enough jobs that it can do well to keep it reasonably busy and not spend too much on contractors or a flock of small engines.

I mow an acre at each of two properties and do it with a riding mower because I went a bit oversized on the tractor. It wasn't a bad choice because contractors aren't always available in the deep country and you have to pay them mileage. Likewise, young backs aren't always around and I have to depend on being able to do material handling myself. There were some heavy on-time jobs initially and the tractor now earns its keep with landscaping and maintenance, snow removal and a bit of ag stuff. It hasn't been too busy lately but there is some building work coming up.

Tractors sort of become a part of life and I think it's good to be sure how they're going to fit in before spending too much time on the 'which one' or the money questions. From the description, I'm not sure I heard of much of a role for a tractor if it's not going to mow but I could be wrong. Leasing may be an alternative if the idea is some one-time projects.






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 03-26-2004, 09:26 Post: 81209
DRankin



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 Small Acreage - New Holland TC24D or Kubota BX23

My thoughts:

1) Anyone who thinks a BX22/23 is a toy suitable only for cleaning the cat box has never used one.

2) You can get so caught up in resale value that you might end up with something you can't even use. Get what you need now and let the chips fall where they may later.

3) That is a fabulous price for the BX. If I had just an acre to work and the land wasn't rough as a cob, I would stop right there.






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 03-26-2004, 19:54 Post: 81256
oneace

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 Small Acreage - New Holland TC24D or Kubota BX23

actually we sell them and i have used one they are in MY OPINION an over glorified lawn mower the lift capacity is too small the back hoe buckets will only move a fist full of dirt at time ect.....






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 03-26-2004, 20:45 Post: 81269
Art White



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 Small Acreage - New Holland TC24D or Kubota BX23

Lets see if I get this right, buy a compact TLB and play or pay for a landscaper and go play and leave the job to a pro. Seems like you know what would be best to mow what you want when done it's just which route to go. With a landscaper he could also haul those stumps out as well as other debris.






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 03-26-2004, 21:51 Post: 81275
oneace

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 Small Acreage - New Holland TC24D or Kubota BX23

i agree with you on that quote






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 03-27-2004, 06:41 Post: 81285
DennisCTB

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 Small Acreage - New Holland TC24D or Kubota BX23

Bobby,

Diito on Arts comments. One thing you need to keep in mind is that the machine will only do so much, when you eliminate the landscaper, buying a machine is not a one for one replacement.

Sure a tractor will help, but the amount of back breaking "by hand work" that is left is enormous.

For example all of the machines you listed are generally too small to put a harley rake on, and they are too expensive to buy for a one off lawn job. A better tool is a rock hound on a skid steer, the tool your landscaper would use.

If you get a Grade L Kubota or Deere 4310 + size machine it could handle the harley, and you might even find a place to rent it to you.

Most Tractor equipment rental places only rent attachments for mid weight + tractors generally at 30 + hp.

Thinking you can buy a tractor for $20 k and replace the $15 - 20 k landscape bill for a new house is wishful thinking, its tempting, but you will be exhausted in the process.

For example a guy with a bull dozer so big it can only be hauled on off hours cleared a couple of acres for me. I paid $75 per hour. He stumped 3 acres of cleared forest with hundreds of stumps in about 4 hours. Basically even the largest compact tractor would have been much too small for this task, and even if I spent the the year it would take doing it I still would have had to call him back to grade it, and bring a track hoe in to put the the stumps in the truck to be hauled off.

You can do the math. I do not think short time tractor buys are a good way to go for people building new homes without some longer term need or a desire to own such a machine. You will be be way better off finding a place that has all the attachments you will need on a rental basis and then leasing a bigger machine if you are determined to go this route, better yet would be hiring it out.

Sorry.

Dennis
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