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 | Chuck
Join Date: Posts: 1 
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2000-08-22 19059
My pond is surrounded by cattails that extend from the bank out to approxiamtely 20 feet. I have JD4300. Any suggestions on how the 4300 could be used to pull the cattails out of the pond would be appreciated. Can't afford a backhoe.
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| Jeff
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2000-08-22 19060
I dont know if anyone has told you or not,but these JD 4000 series do not float(and they are not waterproof either),they are not made like a volkswagon so whatever you do not drive it in the pond.
Sincerly
High and Dry ....
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| Chris in IN
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2000-08-22 19062
Chuck a 4300 with a 48 backhoe could reach about 10 feet out. Or you could find a contractor with a large track hoe. These machines can reach about 20 feet with out any problem. Chris ....
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 | Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada 
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2000-08-23 19073
Removing the cat-tails is only a very small part of your problem. If they are removed and nothing else is done, they will grow right back, with a vengance. There is several ways to prevent this kind of growth around water, probably the most workable solution is to remove the cat-tails and cover the area around the pond with a strip of EPDM (rubber) pond-liner material, then cover with river rock, or similar. You would not need to cover the entire area, just the part nearest the pond, unless the ground near the pond is not high enough above water level to remain dry and discourage this type of plant. Best of luck. ....
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| Jeff Earthwerks Unli
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2002-09-19 42675
Depending on how deep the water is and how far above the water line the bank is you may not be able to remove the cattails. I have a NH 555 4x4 with a 20' reach and I could only go out about 6 feet down from the bank to the roots. In my case there was about 4 ft tall plants above the water and about as much below. If you use a bacehoe the best bet is to put it a 45% angle to the shoreline. That way you reach out and dig and still be able to swing the bucket onto shore. For safety ('cause I ain't a good swimmer) I keep both out riggers within inches of the ground and swing the hoe all the way around facing away from the pond to transfer the weight toward the bank and off the inside rear wheel. BE CAREFUL though--a hard acceleration forward up the bank will spin you right back around to the pond. There's a big chunk of seat foam missing now! Don't ask!!! : ) ....
Link:
Click Here
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| DH83
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2002-09-20 42678
CHUCK I HAD THE SAME PROBLEM,I SPRAYED THEM WITH ROUND UP
AND THEN BURNED THEM OFF WHEN THE POND ICED OVER,ROUND UP
DIDN'T KILL THE FISH.THE CAT TAILS NEVER CAME BACK EITHER.
THEY DO MAKE SOME STUFF FOR CAT TAILS CALLED RODEO BUT
ROUND UP IS CHEAPER AND DOES THE SAME THING. ....
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| TC33
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2002-09-20 42692
We have lots of cattails around our ponds and I normally just back up as far as I can with my brushhog and cut them... but!!! Here in Ohio there is a lot of land reclaiming and this includes ponds. There are companies that will come out to your house and actually pull out the cattails for their reclaimation. ....
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| Chuck
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2002-09-27 43019
What I finally ended up doing was to hire a guy with a large trackhoe. He dugout all the cattails/roots in late 2000 and they haven't come back. If you follow this technique be careful about where you put the cattails and tons of muck that comes with them. The guy just threw it over the backside of the dam. About a month later I noticed a big crack in the back of the dam and within a year a 75 foot wide and 6 foot deep section on the back of the dam slipped!! In June of this year I had a bulldozer guy come in to reshape the dam as well as put in a new drawdown pipe (which was destroyed by the slippage). The removal of the cattails was $750 but the repair to the dam was $3200 !! :( ....
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| dcsmith
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 23 ohio
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2002-09-27 43025
I live in Ohio and could not find the product "Rodeo". I admitt I really did not look to hard. Where can you get it, and how come Roundup didn't kill the fish? What about my Big Dumb Dog who can't swim but only drinks pond water? I may need a back hoe if that stuff 86's him. ....
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| JonB
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2002-09-28 43037
DC, I haven't seen Rodeo in the larger hardware stores, but it is advertised in our Farm/Agriculture newspaper (Cal Farm Bureau). From this I assume it would be available at a farming supply, (instead of home owner supply). Best of luck. ....
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| MRETHICS
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 190 Star City, Indiana
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2002-09-30 43118
About Rodeo,
You may want to check with your County Extension Agent.
Rodeo may require a licsense to purchase in your state. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-10-01 43147
I'll play devil's advocate here. I wonder why the cattails are being blamed when the pond design likely is at fault.
If a pond produces wet lands that cattails grow in it's probably because the water levels are too high or the pond doesn't actually have banks. I suppose the cattails can be poisoned into oblivion, but if cattail habitat remains, they'll be back. The stock ponds my uncles had didn't have cattails to my recollection. You also could drop a line a few feet from anywhere on the banks and the water was deep enough to catch sunfish. I can't remember why I wanted to catch sunfish though.
Cattails can be viewed as one of nature's wonders. Virtually every part of them are edible by people and wildlife alike. They provide wildlife habitat and you can put seriously polluted water into a cattail marsh and decent water comes out the other end. Unless it's a cosmetic problem, a case can be made for cultivating rather than poisoning them.
Devil's advocate positions are of course intentional over statements where typically the devil's advocate doesn't believe it either. No, I've never eaten anything cattail myself.
....
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| TC33
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2002-10-01 43148
I saw a jug of Rodeo yesterday in Cambridge Ohio at the landmark store. $132.00... nice price... ....
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| MRETHICS
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 190 Star City, Indiana
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2002-10-01 43165
TomG raised some good points. (as per usual)
If you do decide to use the "Rodeo". Assumng you can legaly purchase it where you live, make sure you follow the instructions within it's label. Take all precautions when handleing and applying the chemical, and safely dispose of the container when empty.
Take, in particular,speacial attention to the products re-entry statments, and safe fishing statements.
Proper storage of the unused portion is also important. Don't keep what's left in an unmarked pkg in the kitchen cabinates next to the flour.
....
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| karmakanic
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5 NE Texas
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2002-10-01 43184
Hi Chuck,
I was intrigued by your mention of the dam slippage after the spoils were dumped there. I'm planning to clean out my pond and was gonna do the same thing with the mud. Why did it cause the dam to fail, any ideas? I have heavy clay here in my neck of the woods, what's the soil like in your area?
Thanks for any input,
Dave Perry ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-10-02 43210
Dave, I was wondering why the dam cracked as well. Maybe we'll hear. I assumed that it was because the hoe operator had no place to dump the muck other than downstream and drove the tracked hoe on the dam when dumping. Mind you, I can't see driving moving a hoe every time a bucket is dumped. Rebuilding track bottoms is expensive I hear. Maybe there was a dump truck involved.
What every the explanation is, it sounds like there might be a 'don't do this' tip here for people who have ponds.
....
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| Chuck
Join Date: Posts: 1
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2002-10-06 43469
Dave & Tom, I believe the dam failed for 3 reasons:
1) Its back slope is 2-1 which mades it fairly prone to slippage in the first place. The bulldozer guy said he recommends 3-1.
2) The drawdown pipe was cracked and leaking inside of the dam. Whoever built the dam didn't know what they were doing and used cheap, corrigated, flexible 4 inch PVC pipe. :( I replaced it with 6 inch schedule-40 PVC (which is very strong).
3) The dam was in a weakened state and so the tons of water & muck that was dumped on it was more than it could handle. The weight/vibration of the trackhoe on top of the dam may have also contributed to the weakening?
Dave we have clay so soil type wasn't a factor.
Tom, I thought about hauling the stuff away in a dump truck but the trackhoe guy wasn't to keen on that idea. The pond location isn't easy to access, it would have been much more expensive and someplace would have been needed to dump the muck....which by the way may take 2+ years to dry! Keep in mind that a dozer may be needed to smooth out the muck after it dries (more expense).
I also considered using a chemical like Rodeo to kill the cattails but decided against that because our drinking water comes from the pond.
I also considered doing nothing and just let the cattails alone. They do purify the water, prevent erosion and have other benefits. In 20/20 hindsight, if I had it to do over again, this is the option I would have chosen.
Chuck in IN ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-10-07 43484
Chuck: Too bad about the problems. Knowing little about dam construction, I did sort of wonder if dumping material on the backside might have in effect over-powered the water pressure, and it seems that might be what happened.
Yep, 4" flexi-drain (called 'Big O' around here) is convenient but weak. On the other hand, I used common rigid drain into a raised leeching pit at our camp. Frost heave plus trailer sway broke an elbow the first winter that I since replaced with rubber elbows.
You're lucky if a pond supplies a reliable source of potable water. Even if we had one we couldn't use it around here. We've now got the 'water police' since a deficiency in public regs and operations resulted in some deaths due to e-coli contamination of a municipal system. The contamination resulted from heavy rains that flooded well with runoff from nearby feeder lot operations. Hope there's no possibility of something like that in your case.
Anyway, here the WP are closing in even on dug wells let alone ponds. Our township hall has bottled water because it has a dug well. A dug well of any kind can't be used as a source of public drinking water. The WP would be happy if nobody used dug wells.
....
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| Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
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2002-10-07 43491
I hate to ruin a perfectly good theory, but here goes anyways.
The pond wall failed because the cat-tails were dug out, not because the dirt was left on the back-side of it.
Now let me clarify just a little. The pond wall depends on to things in order to function, 1) it must be fairly water-proof, and 2) it must be of sufficient mass to physically hold back the weight of the water.
Had the weight of the soil been the cause the dam would have collapsed INTO the pond, not cracked open, which is caused by motion outwards. What happened (IMHO) is the cleaning of the plants also caused a hole in the clay liner of the pond allowing the water to saturate the soil and CRITICALLY weaken it. The soil then slumped (oozed) out of position, once water was able to flow, it was bye-bye time.
Cat-tails are one of only a handfull of aquatic plants which are able to root in a clay liner, which is why I said earlier on in this thread, the safest way to solve this problem is to lay a strip of EPDM rubber liner along the edge of the pond out to the depth where the are no longer able to grow.
Best of luck. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2002-10-08 43534
That sounds like a very plausible explanation. Assumptions often ruin good theories. Without really thinking about it, I assumed that the digging wouldn't have been on the dam because I think of cattails on the backside of a pond rather than the dam side. Most dams are probably sloped enough so there's little space at the dam where cattails can grow. Assumptions also lead to confusion. I couldn't figure how the muck would get to the dam for dumping unless it was trucked. I guess an assumption from Murf is that the pond has a liner. I don’t know if liners can be omitted if soils are very heavy.
So, now I'm all assumed and confused out but I've also learned something. I believe I'll remember about liners if the subject of digging in ponds comes up again. 'Course ponds are a mystery around here. There are so many lakes and creeks that few people would ever want their own pond--just makes for more bugs. If you really want one, forget about it and beaver likely will make one for you.
I hope all this thinking is helpful or at least interesting even if it is after the fact. Now I’m trying to be unassuming.
....
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| karmakanic
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5 NE Texas
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2002-10-09 43625
I suspect the main reason the pond failed was from the leaking drawdown pipe. The weight and water of the spoils may of brought on the final failure, but it was going to fail anyway.
If the soil was clay you don't have a separate liner. Clay makes a fine pond dam, pretty much inpervious as long as the water doesn't have a path it can follow. A pipe is such a path, and a leaking pipe in a clay dam will bring on quick failure. The continual water ingress wil turn the clay to mush, and it will flow like molassas.
We have heavy clay soils here, and that makes it easy to build ponds. Pretty much dig a hole anywhere and wait for it to fill up. But when it rains, brother you better have your hip boots on if you're out in that clay. You'll be up to your hips before you know it.
Dave ....
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