Go Bottom Go Bottom

Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-28          55804

I have been actively shopping for a compact tractor, but all this talk about rollovers is freaking me out.

In the "Terracing my property" thread TomG & Murf have mentioned worries about tractor stability on 12% grades. Hells bells, I have some grades of 20-22% - if I can't safely traverse and do some small amount of work on these steeper grades a tractors utility value for me is greatly diminished.

I've read extensively here about ballast, maintaining a low center of gravity, tiltmeters, turning safely on hills, slippery conditions, etc. but am am still not sure if a tractor is suitable for my needs. I out of my mind thinking about a tractor under our conditions?


Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-28          55805

My $.02. If you have never operated machinery/equipment may be the job you want to do should be hired to a contractor. You sound like your are not sure about your knowledge equipment, slopes and capibilities of equipment and what can or can not be done.

Always remember it does not matter how good or bad you are. If you lack the knowledge to tackle a complex task "STUFF" can and probably will happen.

Good Luck Harvey ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-28          55806

I don't mind attending safety clinics and educating myself, but the intent of my questions were more along these lines - Is a CUT capable of safely traversing on a 22% grade? Can it safely traverse the grade dragging a rotary cutter behind it? Do I need a CUT with tracks? Does anyone even MAKE a CUT with tracks?

We have one 22% grade that bisects our property. The east and west sides are fairly flat, but I need to be able to get the tractor from one side to the other safely and do brushcutting along the way.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-28          55810

I do not want to sound insensitive and I'll try not to. Safety clinics are at farm shows; see how many one armed or legged farmers are there. How many are missing fingers? hands? These are the lucky ones, you do not see the unlucky ones only their widows. Machinery is unforgiving. I will say this: I am seeing fewer lucky farmers these days. Basically the "Darwin" type pool of canidates is getting smaller with each family farm being sold. Today's farmers are more in tune with safety issues and enforce them more with their empolyees.

State workers mow 20+ degree slopes all the time but they have specially built tractors LOW, wider axles, Small wide tires. They have stronger ROPS. They do roll them over quite frequently. REASONS: lack of experience, hidden holes, side slipping and digging in.

Bottom line tractors and slopes is not the place to learn capibilities unless you want to leave a rich widow. Or have a really good woman to take care of your broken body.

Most people learn important stuff by making mistakes and surviving them. I've learned lots. I've been very fortunate through out the years. Even have all of my fingers but a couple of them have funny bends in them :-).

I do not believe in tilt meters. I believe in the spincter factor. (aka: pucker factor) If it is so tight I can not drive a nail up it with a framing hammer I should not be where I'm at.

Harvey
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-28          55811

I reread the post and should of asked a silly question. Why not just mow up and down the slope??? Any tractor could do that. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
GJ Archibald
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-05-28          55812

I disagree with Harvey.....anyone can learn to safely
operate a tractor ! This is not nuclear physics, nor is
it overly risky if you use common sense. Like Harvey
states later, go straight up and down the slopes, wear
your seatbelt and keep your arms inside the roller coaster
at all times ;-) Common sense and situational awareness
are all that is required.....if you want to be extra safe,
read every page of your operators' manual....you will be
get bored of reading safety placards very quickly ;-) ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-28          55813

I appreciate your input and am taking no offense. When you say "mow up and down the hill" I assume you mean go directly up and down the hill rather than try to drive sideways across it? That is largely the question. Can a compact tractor safely go directly UP and DOWN a 22% grade? Can it do it safely while pulling a rotary cutter? I don't mean go sideways - when I said traverse the hill I meant up and down. I hope I'd never be stupid enough to try to drive sideways on it.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
GJ Archibald
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-05-28          55814

unfortunately, I am not very good at judging the severity
of a grade by the percentage.....maybe one of the older hands can pipe in and help you with this....all I know is that I go down the back edge of my leaching field in my
JD4100 and it is VERY steep. Sometimes I mow in reverse
in FWD, which is quite interesting ;-) I apologize if my tone seemed smug, I did not mean it to be, I just feel
that tractors should be fun and anyone who has common sense
will realize very quickly what they can and cannot do with one. Oh, one other point, watch the stearing wheel, it is easy to get complacent and not notice it is turned slightly when you drive down the incline........Have phun ! ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
BillMullens
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 649 Central West Virginia
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-28          55818

A 20% grade is one foot vertical in five feet horizontal. It makes a handy reference since my TC29 is 5' wide. One foot in elevation difference between the left and right tires is 20%. And that's enough. Traversing a slope that steep is possible but if something unforseen happens (hit a hole on the low side, or a stump or rock on the upper side), bad things would happen. When in doubt, I back up steep slopes when mowing. With a little practice, it becomes a handy way to mow a slope. And keep it in 4wd going down slopes; that way the brakes work on all four wheels rather than just the back two. Helps prevent runaways.
A quick way to estimate slope percentage is with a board, ruler and carpenter's level. A 5' or 10' long board is handy for mental math. Just lay the board on the slope, put the level on top and pick up the downhill side of the board until the level shows it is level. Now measure from the bottom of the board to the ground on the downhill side. Percent slope = rise divided by run (such as 1/5 =20%) With a 10' long board, each foot in rise is 10%.
Don't give up on compact tractors; just like any other tool, they can be dangerous, but don't have to be.
Bill ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
JerryG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 54 NW AR
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-28          55835

I always get confused about percent grade vs degree of slope. Having said that, I think that anyone will get into the pucker factor at 22 degree. I mow all the time at about 20 degrees when going cross a hills on certain areas of my place, but no more. When I do this, it is a known area that has NO drop offs, ridges or bumps. Most places that are that steep or steeper, I mow straight up and down. You can mow to 30 or 35 degrees going up and down. Some may not agree with me, but I do this with bit of experience under my belt. And yes I have a tiltmeter, rather two of them. I use them for curiosity on slopes and to keep check on my pucker factor. The best use I have for them is to make grades, as in ditches and contouring banks etc. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-05-29          55853


I've never figured why safety rules of thumb are in degrees and most construction work is in terms of percent grade. There no reason why tilt meters couldn't read in percent grades rather than degrees. If I recall my trig right, percent grade would be the tangent of the slope in degrees.

Seems like it's just confusing to state things in terms of degrees. Degrees may make sense to pilots that are used to turn and bank indicators. People using equipment need to know that the slope is before they're on it and percent grade is what we have or get easily. Having to do a look up in trig tables to figure out if things are safe probably isn't.

Assuming my recall of trig is OK, a 20% grade is almost a 12-degree slope. I've heard that a manufacture recommends a max of 15 degrees for side-hill work, which is between an 8 and 9 percent grade.

Despite my numbers, I'm with Harvey and not much in favour of tilt-meters. You really have to sense what's unsafe before you're on it. I estimated about 1/3rd of a second to react to a back flip in another comment. There's no time to read a tilt meter. Rather than freak, I'd say venture forth in modest circumstances these safety rules of thumb tend to be pretty conservative. Develop a feeling for your particular tractor in operation and then less modest conditions can be tried. Harvey's pucker factor also is my guide plus the basic safety concepts I've picked up here. Hope my trig is right and this comment is a little helpful.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
BillMullens
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 649 Central West Virginia
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-29          55862

Good morning, Tom.
By my calculator, a 15 degree slope is about 27%. I've never seen slopes expressed in degrees (pertaining to tractor safety) so have no intuition for it. Percent is easier for me to visualize and estimate. It might be educational to walk around the property with a board and level and guess at a slope, then actually measure it.
Bill ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-05-29          55863

G'morning too! Our calculations agree. I also get 27-degree for a 15% grade, and a 15-degree slope is about an 8% grade.

It's good to have a clarification that maybe manufacturer rules of thumb are in grades rather than degrees. I was taking my comment from an old discussion that said 15-dregees. Discussions about tilt meters I read also state things in terms of degrees, but true enough I've never seen one and given my attitudes probably never will. From prior comments there seems to be a fair bit of confusion between the two terms.

Guess all this underscores that importance of distinguishing between percent grades and degrees. The same slope as a percent grade is going to be a smaller number than the some slope in degrees. It would be good to be entirely certain if meters and recommendations are in degrees or grades. A person who interpreted grade recommendations as degrees probably would be OK but it could be very bad if the interpretation was the other way.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-29          55865

KWS, I didn't mean to infer that you COULDN'T operate on grades greater than 12 degrees (13.333%) I meant that you should use extreme CAUTION on any slope above that point.

Harvey's point about the learning curve is a good one, so is his mention of the accidents that still happen even to the most experienced operators, in fact we discussed a case last year about the death of employee of one of my customers, a member of the greens-keeping staff with MANY years experience at a golf course, the mower suddenly slipped down a bank and flipped into a pond, the operator was trapped and drowned before anyone found him.

GJ, I doubt anybody would say that someone COULDN'T learn to operate a machine safely, us older hands just want to make sure that the newcomers learn CORRECTLY, and that they learn BEFORE an accident happens.You make a very good point about being alert to direction when backing up. A little trick is to constantly change your focus from what's right in your path, to someplace off in the distance where your direction is easily judged.

Bill, your slope calc is right on the money.

Tom, percentage is used in construction because it is so easy to calculate, therefore more likely to be done correctly. It started with engineering, which is handed to the workers to implement. Telling a someone that you want the land to drop 4' in a 100' is more likely to be accomplished correctly than if you said you want a 3.6 degree slope.

Calculating slope as a percentage in itself can result in a lot of mistakes also, the problem is in defining what constitutes 100%, mathematicians will tell you that 45 degrees, or for example, a rise of 10'over a run of 10', is a 100% slope. However, that leaves it rather difficult to describe an angle of say, 65 degrees, as a percentile, what would you call that, a 127% slope. In construction it is generally accepted that 90 degrees is a 100% slope, a vertical, and of course a 0 degree slope is a 0% slope. By this method one degree is 1.111111% of slope, being 1/90th.

Finally KWS, while it is best to just avoid steeper slopes, the next best solution is to be sure your slopes are a known entity if you have to work on them, walk every square inch of them, remove or mark any hole or obstacle. I have several customers with unbelievable slopes which are CAREFULLY maintained on a regular basis. If you have to regularly cross a slope from side to side in the same spot, consider a small terrace on which you can build a fairly flat, level, safe crossing.

Most of all, fear not, adrenaline, or as Jerry put it so well, the Pucker Factor, is a great thing for keeping you alert.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-29          55870

Like everything you can find a CUT to do almost anything you require if you look hard enough. Don't underestimate our capabulities. Below is a post for CUT's that will work on 40% and 45% slopes. American built naturally. ....


Link:   Slope tractor

 
Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-29          55874

Bill and Tom,

Wouldn't a 15 degree grade be around 16.5% grade. I don't know anything about this but I come to my conclusion that if you have a 90 degree grade, that is straight up or a 100% grade? A 45 degree grade would be a 50%?

Billy ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-29          55876

I am more afraid of my chain saw. And my skill saw, and the ax I split wood with, and working on the roof and west nile virus.

I routinely drive my tractors up and down slopes that are hard to walk on without steps being cut into them.

Idiots manage to cut their toes off with common lawn mowers. Use the safety equipment, slow down, study the ballast recommendations and use your God given common sense. And enjoy your tractor.

....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-29          55880

Good point (as usual) Mark. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-29          55881

Well said Mark! ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-29          55884

You guys are great! Very helpful information, and Mark's post put it in context. The concensus seems to be that if I'm careful going up or down the slopes I need to cross shouldn't be a problem, but as always SAFETY FIRST. I have no intention of crossing these slopes side to side.

Still, when it's finally delivered I think I'll make the sales guy come out and demonstrate how it's done :)

I'm within a day or two of ordering I think. Narrowed it down to TC33D or Deere 4310/4410. Right now NH seems to have a better package for about $2k less (love that SuperSteer) but I still intend to lean on the Deere guy for a better price.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
BillMullens
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 649 Central West Virginia
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-29          55895

Billy and Murf,

We might be running into a different set of definitions of slope. In the mining/civil industry, slope is defined as rise (vertical distance) divided by run (horizontal distance). So, a 45 degree angle is 1/1 = 100% A 90 degree angle is considered infinite slope or rise/run = 1/0 = infinity. In mining, giving the numbers directly is the most common such as a 2:1 (2 foot horizontal to 1 foot vertical) slope for a 50% grade (typical side slope for ditches and fill embankments) or 1/4:1 for a stable slope cut into rock, which is a slope of 400%.
Bill ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-29          55898

Yeah Bill, I think it's the difference in definitions. I know I saw a tiltmeter online. I noticed they had 20 degrees and above in the red. The way I figure it is 20 degrees = a 22% slope.

Sounds like when they're talking about degrees of slope, in tractoring, It's as Murf stated. Vertical rise/horizontal run/1.1=degrees.

I may be dead wrong but sounds right to me?

....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-05-29          55929

This seems like a very good discussion to have. It'll probably get everybody using the same definitions and interpretations.

What Bill and I seem to be using is the deflection from horizontal in degrees of a right triangle where the long leg is the horizontal distance and the short leg is the rise and the slope is the hypotenuse. The rise divided by the horizontal should be the tangent of that angle and the angle can be looked up in trig tables. Hummm I'm pretty sure my table was in degrees than radians (whatever those are). It's been awhile.

Anyway, deflection from horizontal seems like a pretty good interpretation of a slope in degrees to me. It is interesting to hear of other definitions for degree slope.

I couldn't agree with Murf more. A point I was trying to make is that percent grade is easy to measure, calculate and interpret. If slopes in degrees are used in tractor safety recommendations, I can't understand why.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-29          55953

Gradient - the ratio of the difference in elevation between two given points and the horizontal distance between them, or the distance for unit rise or fall.
Basicly the percent slope is the tangient, in percent form of the degree of slope.
Therefore a 45 % slope is 24.2 degee slope
I certainly have gone up and down steeper slopes greater than this. The section of road out side the house in KY was steeper than that.
The key is that you need the tractor in 4x and do it slowly. Resist the temptation to push clutch. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
DrMorgan
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 16 Upstate NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-05-30          55957

45 degrees = 100% slope. Rise over run times 100.

The way you figure it, you need a calculator. The slope in degrees is the inverse tangent of the % of the slope. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
DrMorgan
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 16 Upstate NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-05-30          55958

In other words, the rise over run gives a fraction. Say the rise over run is 1 foot every 5 feet, that's a 1/5 slope or .2 which means 20% slope, enter .2 in the calculator and hit the inverse (shift) button and then the tangent button, you get 11.3099 degrees. If the rise is 1 foot every foot, that's 1, and the inverse tangent of 1 is 45 degrees. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-30          55960

Looks like we're going to agree on disagreeing on degrees.

Peters,

The tiltmeter that I saw online was a reference of degrees from left to right/right to left. ....


Link:   tiltmeter

 
Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-30          55963

After sitting here and picturing a triangle in my head, I do believe I'm dead wrong. Sorry guys but I never took trig. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-05-30          55964

Well hey! I think everybody is right here and terminology is the only confusion. I believe that Peters and Morgan are calculating the same way as did Bill and myself--equal rise and travel is a 100% grade. Murf and Billy's way is different and doesn't use the idea of slope as I use it in math. Here, vertical is a 100% grade. It is less intuitive to me but there probably is less chance of misinterpretation. The main advantage is that percent grade and degrees come out close enough to be interchangeable for most purposes.

Now all that seems to be needed to sort out the issue is knowing for certain that any degree spec used by manufacturers for safety recommendations uses Murf and Billy's method. If that is true and I misinterpreted safety degree specs the only bad thing likely to happen is that I would seriously under-rate my tractor's ability to operate on slopes. Far better to be oversafe than undersafe I guess. Real good discussion here.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-30          55972

I took my definition out of the Cambridge dictionary of Science and tech. In trig the tangent of the degree is the rise over the run. There for the tangent of 45 degrees is 1.00 or 100% slope.
Billy, Dr. Morgan was not disagreeing with me only looking at the equation from the reverse. The arctangent of rise divided by the run will give you the angle in degrees.
What Tom is thinking I have no idea, although it took a little thought before I remembered anything. It has been more than 20 years since I did any real surveying.
Dr. Peters ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-30          55987

There are many ways of specifying angles.
"Degrees" is the most common way that we learned in school.

% Grade is useful when you are using distance measuring equipment and levels rather than "protractor" instruments.

In engineering, we also use radians where a full circle or 360 degrees is divided into 6.28 (2 X PI) dimensionless numbers. This is useful for rotating equipment, but if I told you that a slope was 0.5 radian, even the most experienced engineer would convert that to degrees or % grade.

"Grads" is another term where a right angle is divided into 100 parts rather than ninety degrees. I don't know the particular advantage of grads, but I occasionally see them. I am sure that there are other systems that I don't even know about. These measurement methods all have their purpose and advantages in certain situations.

The relationship between % slope and the slope measurement in degrees from horizontal is the tangent or arctangent depending upon which way that you are converting. 45 degrees is a 100% grade. You can use a calculator or tangent table to do the conversion. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-30          55993

This is all very interesting. When I calculated that the slope I needed to go up and down on was 22% I used the method in this URL. Basically I have a 9 foot drop in 41 feet, 9/41=0.219=22%. This URL explains it well for those like me who are somewhat math impaired. ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
AC5ZO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 928 Rio Rancho, NM 87144
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-30          56013

You should be OK. Situations vary and the specs coming from the manufacturer have to consider a margin of safety to allow for various implements attached to the tractor. Front end loaders are some of the most handy implements to own but also the most dangerous with respect to tipping and raising the center of gravity. Rough surfaces are harder to traverse than smooth ones. Lugged tires are better on some surfaces and turf tires are better on others. You get the idea...

If you have any doubts, that is the first safety mechanism of common sense kicking in. The safe play is to drive up and down slopes for those doubtful situations. I grew up on a farm and was driving tractors well before I could be licensed to drive a car. Experience is the best teacher, but you have to use your common sense and instincts as well. It may be too late to learn an experience lesson if you are traversing a serious slope and drop the rear wheel in a big hole.

Years ago I sold farm equipment. At that time, the worry was with tricycle gear tractors -vs- wide front ends. I believe that wide front tractors, like all compact tractors that I have seen of recent manufacture, are some of the most stable tractors ever made.

Now, I live in a rugged desert area. I routinely go up and down steep grades with 4WD. I have never measured the angle, but the slopes are difficult to even stand on. I would not even consider traversing those same slopes with the tractor for a second.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-05-31          56070

Uum, try to agree with everybody and get dumped on. I guess that's a usual fate. I was saying that everybody who were calculating triangles were calculating the same way and that everybody was correct in terms of slopes.

I think Murf was making an illustration that the use of degrees and slopes is always going to be ambiguous to some extent and that percent grade isn't. If degrees were used on plans then some notation would be needed to identify the particular triangle used for the calculation. You have to know the triangles orientation before the slope is interpretable. You'd end up with something like positive and negative degrees for slopes less than or greater than a 100% grade, you can't calculate verticals since they are infinite slopes and then what would be done for overhangs? A bunch of messy notation and it's been a long time for me too.

In the approach Murf used as an illustration, a vertical is considered to be a 100% grade rather than an infinite one. Each one percent of the 90 degrees from horizontal to vertical then becomes 1.1 degrees in percentage terms. I stick to percent grade for my grading and trig for my carpentry, but I can see that the approach may have some advantages. It still isn't as clear as percent grade but the results do come out very close to percent grade.

Mostly what I was thinking is still wondering how degrees used in manufacturer safety recommendations and tilt meters should be interpreted. I think that's something that should be entirely clear. I can see some real disasters if somebody talks about the steep slopes they work on in degrees and somebody else interprets that as percent grade.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
DrMorgan
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 16 Upstate NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-05-31          56088

To make it worse, carpenters don't use degrees or percents or grads for roofing, they use parts per 12. "The pitch is 9 1/2 in 12," they might say. And 9 1/2 in 12 is .79 which is 38.36 degrees which is 42.6 grads. It's 79% one way and 42.6% the other way. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-31          56090

After all of the discussion I will go back to my original thought. NOVICES AND SLOPES/GRADES do not mix.

YUP! Learning to operate equipment it is not rocket sicence but mistakes are usually final. We never put beginners near water, power lines, embankments and trenching operations.

You can read about safety and operation and study it all you want; but until you actually do it... Like riding a bike, sex... well this is probably heading the wrong way now...

kwschumm if you are un sure... BACK THE MOWER STRAIGHT UP THE GRADE/FALL LINE. Fall line = take a basketball and roll it down the slope. Follow that line to mow in reverse.

Keep it in FWD if the tractor will not push the mower backwards up the slope the slope is probably to steep to try and drive up.

AND DO NOT EVER BELIEVE ANYONE THAT SAYS A TRACTOR WITH 3PH WILL NOT GO OVER BACKWARDS!

You are asking questions and that is good.

Good Luck Harvey ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
marklugo
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 281 Tifton, GA
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-31          56091

You know, they do offer tractor saftey courses. When in college I almost finished the certification to do this. But life happened and couldn't finish. There is plenty of material available from the major manufacturers to operate the machinery safely. FFA's around the country offer training at night. Videos are available as well. This is not hard to find. I am suprised at some of the advice espoused here. I wouldn't stake my life on it.
Farming just happens to be the #1 most dangerous industry in the US. This is because of the dangers inherent in machinery operation. The only safe and internationally recommended way to run on slopes is up and down with roll bar installed and seatbelt on. Any other way, and your wife won't stand a chance in a lawsuit alleging poor design issues with the manufacturer after your death or dismemberment. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-31          56093

I'd like to add, and I agree with everyone here that's already been said.

You have to use common sense. If it looks/feels to dangerous, it probably is. Just be careful and go slow, until you get the feel of things. Eeven if you still feel comfortable, keep an eye out for the unexpected. The unexpected is what will get you everytime. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Maynard
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-05-31          56097

I bought a two pairs of RV type bubble level with two way tape backing from WalMart for less than $3/pr. I've read that 20 degrees is the maximum so using a protractor, drew a 10 degrees and a 15 degrees angle lines on each of FEL's vertical post. I then taped a bubble level even with each of the degree lines. This allows me 5 degrees comfort factor.

Using the bubble as gauges, I drove my tractor around my property driving across slopes to determine how much the tractor leaned on the 10 degrees and then 15 degrees. Now I can drive the tractor with a little less appehension of rolling over. Plus it costed less than $6. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
DrMorgan
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 16 Upstate NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-05-31          56103

20 degrees is the maximum for what??!!??

I'd say 10 or 15 degrees is scary for cross slopes, 25 degrees is easy for going frontwards straight up the slope, and as for backing up the slope, 40 is no problem. You can back up almost any slope, there's no limit unless it's muddy or wet grass or something. Dry dirt, no limit. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
BillMullens
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 649 Central West Virginia
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-05-31          56104

Rules of thumb can be dangerous, but...I believe it should be closer to 20%, not 20 degrees, for traversing slopes.
Bill ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Maynard
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-01          56126

Wow, and here I was testing it as much as 15 degrees! ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-01          56131

Real good discussion and important too! I think it points out that there really is no substitute for knowing your tractor and knowing your property as well. It also points out that degrees can be confusing, hard to calculate, and many people don't have a good sense of them.

Maybe degrees aren't the best measures for safety rules of thumb. Last summer I shot two 4% grades to improve drainage. I know what those look like and wouldn't even think about side-hill problems on them. If I thought of them as twice as steep I still wouldn't think much about side-hill operation. It's a little hard to think of something as three times as steep but I might think about it a little at 12%. I could always find a steeper slope, calculate the grade, stand on it and think 'How would the tractor feel here?' I just don't look at a slope and think of it in degrees so safety recommendations in degrees aren't very useful to me.

While standing on the slope, I'd also probably notice the type of ground, whether it was wet and what I'd be doing with the tractor. I wouldn't think about them but I just know they're present in how ever I get the sense of ' It's OK or No, I'm not going there.'

If there's room in this discussion, I'd like to hear opinions about backing up or down steep hills. I tend to back down and drive up. I don't have to work much on steep hills but it feels more secure to me to back down steep ones. If I put thought to it, I'd say that there should be better traction keeping the big rear tires down hill. That could be wrong or there could be other safety considerations.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
cutter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1307 The South Shore of Lake Ontario, New York
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-01          56134

Tom,

When I hired a dozer to clear the back land of my previous home that was comprised of about an acre of mosquito breeding growth that bordered a beautiful creek, I finished the grading myself with the old A/C. There was a steep hill directly behind the house, I had a york rake on the tractor. I found it much more comfortable to back up the steep incline. My reasoning was two-fold; 1. I did not want to experience the front end lifting as they tend to do at a certain point 2. If I had to reverse direction due to loss of traction, stall-out or any other mishap it is much easier/safer to control a machine moving forward than back-wards, especially going down a steep incline. My two cents. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-01          56136

MarkLugo... I am intrigued by your comment that you occasionally find questionable advice espoused here.

Would you not think it incumbent on you to present a different view, especially on matters of safety?

We air out a lot of things on this forum, even the dirty laundry at times, so let's hear all possible facets of this tractoring experience.

I, for one, am not cemented to any color or position and look forward to cogent arguments and spirited intellectual exchange. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-01          56150

Maynard, good idea with the bubble levels! It is ALOT cheaper than the tiltmeter I see being offered for $40 and still does the same thing. I think I'll give it a try. When I was flying helicopters, the slope limits for side to side were 15 degree for the UH-60 Blackhawk and it felt like I was going to roll out the door! Had to really be careful and deliberate when landing on slopes that steep. I would NEVER attempt a slope like that with a tractor unless I went directly (90 degrees) up slope forward or backward and never side ways. Believe it or not nose up or down slope limits were only 6 degrees due to oil starvation in the trasmission.

I second Mark's position on contributing to the discussion. Agree or disagree but stick to the issue and NOT personal or smart alec remarks. We already did that in another post and it got ugly and out of hand fast.

I sometimes feel like some issues are run into the ground in a manor which is referred to in the Army as "Pole Vaulting Over Mouse Turds" ;o) but sometimes that is a good thing, sometimes not. Let's just do our best to be neighborly about it. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-01          56153

There are to many variables for a hard and fast rules for how to get up, down or across a slope.

With my little 4400 gear with clutch I prefer to back up steep enbakements. Generally Along the road here I can not back up them I'll spin out first even in FWD. This is with the 3ph mower on. I'll stick to my statement If I can not back up it it is to probably too steep to drive up. I sure would not want to back down it either. I hate the weed eater but it is the only way to do some of this yard.

I drove for a ready mix company in 1970 and they had a new mixer truck roll from the top of a ski slope to the bottom. The truck was parked on a slight grade sideways the operator was out side the cab running the mixer. As the truck gently rocked side to side mixing the ground on the lower side was pumping and gave way. You can never trust the ground you are on especially if you are close to the edge of balance.

I watch snocats on steep slopes use winches to get them up and down slopes safely. During the summer these slopes are brush hogged. Guess how they do it. Winch on front and back them down and pull them up. They are to steep to get on in any direction. This is not a job for the faint of heart. These guys have done this for years and are very experienced. They inspect the cables daily.

Of course after riding with a snocat operator once. Me thinks they are several sandwiches short of a picnic.

Harvey



....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
harvey
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1550 Moravia, NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-01          56154

Cheif you bring up some very unplasent memories for me. I hate Helicopters and it was worse when the moron pilot knew it...

But I will say I had the greatest admiration of the Dust offs in Viet Nam. But I never had to ride with one of them either. They could get them into the most impossible spots stop them on a dime from full speed and set them down so gently it was pleasuse to watch them operate except for the reason they were in a hurry...

Bottom line here: EXPERIENCE you do not get good at some thing till you've done it for a while. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3034 Northern AL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-01          56155

As we started this post the key is equipment. On tractor may be unstable at any angle even with balast on a side hill. I would not want to mow across a hill with tricyle gear.
At the beginning of the post I added a link to a tractor that is designed to work on side hills. Having been a hill billy in KY I look for a tractor that is stable. I had enough close calls to realize the more stable the tractor the less likely I am to have trouble.
The other aspect of it is experience. You can work to the edge (not with out risk) if you have the experience. The other day the Discovery had a Indonesian man that cut the roads for large gold mines on the west side of New Guinea. Everyone said it couldn't be done, the razor back ridges were just too steep. But he did it. The road still requires cats to winch the trucks up it. The mans sence of balance was set so fine that he fould operate equipment were no one else dared.
....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
stevenc
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 190 North Carolina
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-01          56208

PLEASE wear your seat belt,,it WILL save your life in a roll-over!!!!!!! ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Chief
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4297 Southwest MiddleTennessee
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-01          56211

I think we have pretty well worn out the pole vault poles on this post and subject. <;o) ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
DrMorgan
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 16 Upstate NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-02          56240

Use a roofer's level to tell the pitch. Just lay it on the incline or tractor and it will read off the pitch in degrees, percents, etc. It's not a bubble, it has a weight that hangs down and it reads off the pitch directly. They are cheap, I got mine for $3 at a garage sale but new ones are cheap too. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-16          57789

OK guys, I don't want to bring this subject back up but...

I did some measuring today, on a few places I get a little nervous while transversing. The drop is 1' 2" every 4'. I don't know what degree it is but I think the grade would be 29? ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
jdcman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 103 washington
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-16          57793

Oh what a baby ... No just kidding Billy.

My property is very sloped. Flat with slopes to about 33 degrees, (64.9 grade). The numbers you just gave turn out to be about 16.3 degs.

Anything over about 12 degs I tend not to transverse. I just go up and down. And it goes without saying that I'm always in 4wd mode.

I have a 4400 with 12.4X24 ag tires. Prior to filling the tires the machine just felt like it was going to tip when crossing anything around 10 or so degs.

I just recently bought a GTX245 mower, turf tires no 4wd. Being use to the tractor with 4wd I got to close to one of the slightly steeper slopes. In a flash the stupid mower lost traction and I had no choice but to run it into a tree in order to stop ... if I hadn't I was in for a long ride and probably much worse. These little mowers just aren't tractors. I was okay, but destroyed the steering mechanisim and cowling on 245.

Now that being said I find that there really isn't anywhere I can't go with the 4400 --- but there's been many occasion when I've had to check the under pants for stains.

Be careful --- if it doesn't feel right don't do it. (I just need to listen to my own advise).

Good Luck and ignore my spelling.

....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
DrMorgan
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 16 Upstate NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-17          57818

Billy,

It is my opinion that 16 degrees is too steep to traverse going sideways. MUST go up and down on that slope.

Morgan ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
DrMorgan
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 16 Upstate NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-17          57820

My roofer's level tells me that the roof of my house is 33 degrees. No way any tractor could go up a slope like that. If you went sideways you would tip over, and if you went up and down you'd slide off! You will never catch me in a tractor on a 33 degree pitch. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-17          57828

A long time ago in the city I remember seeing somebody mowing the lawn who had a very steep slope down to the side walk. He had a rotary push mower with a rope tied to the handle. He was standing on top and letting the mower down the slope on the rope and then pulling it back up. That seemed like a pretty good idea although it probably wouldn't be practical for very large areas. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
jdcman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 103 washington
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-17          57834

Doc,

You'd be surprised at where these little tractors can crawl. All you need is good weight distribution, traction, the power to get you up and big balls. (Actually it's not all that uncommon around these parts to see guys on some pretty steep stuff).

I don't travel up very far on that slope. About twenty feet. I back up with the brush wacker up as high as it can go. Don't stop and don't get side ways.

It's a pretty strange feeling looking down the first couple of times you do it. But after a while you figure out what the limits are.

Beats weed whacking by hand. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-17          57844

Tires and ballast. It is about both but mostly tires. When I got my 4100 I entertained thoughts of returning it, it performed that poorly.

I too would have told you back then it wasn't safe to drive up or down a 33 degree slope, and it certainly wouldn't go across such a slope.

Then it dawned on me that I could go about anywhere in my little 4wd pick-up and it didn't even leave tire tracks. It wasn't because the truck was heavier, though I tried that. When I got the tractor ballasted up to near the weight of the truck those R-1's just dug deeper holes everywhere they went.

So it had to be the tires, and it was. There is no worse tire for dry soils than R-1's. It is the worst for traction, it is the worse for braking and in any environment it is the most prone to roll.

Now that I have the tire thing figured out for the environment I occupy, I find I can easily drive up 45 degree slopes in 2wd. That is mostly because I sometimes forget to put it in 4wd going up, but I always remember to check where that lever is going back down.

After saying all that, I must point out that wet, grass covered slopes and other types of hazards I don't have on my land might make it unsafe no matter what sort of tire you choose. Tread cautiously.


....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-17          57848

I'm with Mark, it's the tires and the ballast that make it or break it, and maybe you the tractor also if you're not careful.

We regularly climb 45 degree slopes, sometimes much more than that, but never more than 45 unless we're running in tandem and then only with two VERY experienced operators.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
RichT
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 33 SOCAL
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-17          57871

Slope issues can surprise even the pros. My neighbor operates a 310E JD backhoe for a living. Not too long ago he was screwing around behind his property, dumping stuff I think. Both our properties back up to a bluff/river, with about 30deg slope down to the river.

He got the JD stuck trying to do something horizontally on the slope, VERY near to a rollover condition. It would have rolled down about 300ft to the river. Two BIG tractors were needed to pull his 8ton rig out of danger. He hasn't tried that again. Wish I'd had my camera handy. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-18          57915

That's why we only tackle nasty hills with 2 units in tandem, MUCH safer and faster, lots easier on the iron too.

Thankfully your neighbour got nothing more than a thrill, it never ceases to amaze me how people with LOTS of hours of 'seat time' and who SHOULD know better get complacent and put themselves in such situations.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-18          57971

They say a picture is worth a thousand words? Well, here's three thousand words worth. ....


Link:   

Click Here


 
Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Dr Morgan
Join Date:
Posts: 1
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-18          57974

That truck looks like it's chained onto the platform by the axles. You can see the chain in the photo, and in the 3rd picture you can see the truck ready to tip except the tires are keeping it glued in place, the truck is tipping off the axles. No way, a 66% pitch without tipping! ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Billy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 975 Southeast Oklahoma
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-18          57975

The pictures were more for illustration than what the truck could do. I only posted it so people could actually see what different angles actually looked like. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
jdcman
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 103 washington
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-19          57997

Billy,

Are the angles 10,20 and 30? It's difficult to see on my monitor. But if they are it looks like the grade is calculated wrong ... should be 17.6, 36.4 and 57.7.

But having said that, depending on that surface our little compacts should back right up any of those. Looks like they may have some anti skid stuff on there, hard to say.

....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
DrMorgan
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 16 Upstate NY
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster

2003-06-20          58070

Murf,

What do you mean by running in tandem? Do they chain two tractors to each other, with one to keep the other from tipping? ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo



Freaked out about rollovers

View my Photos
Murf
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 7249 Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada
TractorPoint Premium Member -- 5 Tractors = Very Frequent Poster  View my Photos  Pics

2003-06-23          58158

DrMorgan, you are correct in your assumption, running two tractors in tandem involves towing one tractor with another. The origin of the process was back when things were pulled by animals, a tremendous load could be pulled on fairly flat land and over quite a distance, but a hill both unecessarily tired an animal, and it was dangerous, if they lost their footing, or ran out of energy, both the load and the animal could be lost. It was common to position a spare team at the hills to assist others up & down the hill.

What we do is little different except we use long steel cables and tractors. On particularly nasty hills we use a dozer with a cable winch to drag them up the hill. The really tricky part is getting the two units syncronized, and keeping them that way. If the lead tractor is not pulling enough the one on the hill can slip, if the lead unit tries to pull too hard it can slip, either case is a really bad thing. We use two way radios with handsfree with headsets so that the two units can stay in sync. by calling instructions, usually just a number which represents the rpm's since there is no such thing as shifting on a hill that steep. The key is to have the lead tractor at least over the hill and hopefully on a down-grade, then there is some gravity as well as tractive power at work.

Best of luck. ....

Reply to | Quote Post Reply to PostQuote Reply | Add PhotoAdd Photo


  Go Top Go Top

Share This
Share This







Member Login