I am frustrated with my loader and need advice   : Loaders  -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum and Review I am frustrated with my loader and need advice : Loaders -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum

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 07-14-2004, 16:41 Post: 90901
matthewh



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 I am frustrated with my loader and need advice

Here is the history.

I bought a used massey 1010 with a massey 1014 loader on it. The loader is weak.

I drained and refilled the hydro fluid and changed the filter.

I took off the relief valve and cleaned it.

No serious improvement.

The loader will not lift more than 175 or so lbs.

The loader will pick up the front of the tractor if you put the bucket flat and then tilt it forward. The loader will not pick up the front of the tractor if you point the bucket down and drop the loader and force it down. It takes weight off, but does'nt clear the ground

I have an it manual but it does not cover the loader.

I tried testing pressure from the block in between the housing (where the 3pt hitch is located) and the relief valve, and got no pressure, but I think I'm doing something wrong since there has to be pressure to lift the loader empty.

I did not alter the shims in the valve.

The 3pt seems fine.

Is there something I can do at the loaders controls. Is there a seperate relief valve in it? This is quirky. There are many things on the loaders relief valve that are tempting to take off (to see if they are stuck) etc but I don't want to end up with a yard full of washers springs etc. because I don't know what I"m doing.

PLEASE HELP.






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 07-14-2004, 20:50 Post: 90923
beagle

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 I am frustrated with my loader and need advice

Seems that your system is building pressure if the 3-point works fine and the bucket cylinders can lift the tractor. If you have isolated the problem to the arm cylinders, there are a few things to think about there. Normally the relief valve will relief for both circuits, the bucket and the arms. If you are having problems with just the arms, you have narrowed it down even further. Three things come to mind; bad seal on one or both of the arm cylinders, bad spool in the valve (scored or worn), or a faulty quick connect.

Try changing the lines from the the bucket to the arms at the valve and see if you gain power in the loader arms. If the bucket valve properly operates the arms, your problem is likely in the arm spool in the valve. If you still don't have pressure in the arm cylinders, but the bucket curl works fine, you likely have a bad seal in one or both of the arm cylinders. It doesn't matter if it's one or both, I would have both re-built.

Hope this helps. Try the simple stuff first and try to narrow down the source.






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 07-14-2004, 22:45 Post: 90930
matthewh



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 I am frustrated with my loader and need advice

Thank you for your reply.

Would you mind sticking with me on this?

The bucket won't curl a load up, and the loader won't lift a load up. The bucket will tilt down fast and strong and pick up the tractor. If I "point" the bucket down and drop the loader arms it won't pick up the tractor.

The relief valve I cleaned and inspected was at the 3pt hitch/tranny casing, not at the loader controls. WOuld the loader controls likely have at least one relief valve seperate from the one at the tranny? Note, the one at the tranny does have the initial hydraulic hoses coming out of it (going to the loader control box).

It does have quick connect, should I check these for debris?

What can I do at the loader control box? I wish I had a pic of it for you. I don't want to randomly take things apart, but it seems like it would be a good place for a problem to occur.

Thank you.

Matt






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 07-15-2004, 05:40 Post: 90934
hardwood

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 I am frustrated with my loader and need advice

Matt; You do have a puzzler there, Beagle has you on the right track. Sounds like you've likely found the relief valve for the whole system. You may have allready tried this but try switching the hoses in the quick couplers so that the lever has to move in the oposite diection from normal to curl the bucket. If then you're getting the same response only in thwe opposite directions the either you have a bad spool or something is restricting the return flow thru the valve spool to the sump. Quick disconnect couplers or "Pioneer Couplers" as they are commonly called do malfunction at times, normally a broken spring in a tip will cause the circut to "Slam" to a stop, a weak spring or derbris can cause partial flow, make sure they are fully coupled also. Hope we can help out. Frank.






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 07-15-2004, 06:51 Post: 90941
TomG

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 I am frustrated with my loader and need advice

I would keep in mind that the loader dump is the strongest circuit on a loader. It seems possible that the entire loader is weak but the dump circuit is still strong enough to lift the front.

I'm not sure how the pressure test was done. If it was hooking a gauge into the high-pressure line with a t-fitting then there would be little pressure unless either the loader or 3ph were used under heavy loads. If the gauge starts at 1000 psi a weak loader valve may not register on the gauge. The usual way to test the system relief pressure is to dead end a gauge (for a short time) after the relief valve. The valve should open and squeal during the test. The system relief dose sound OK though. Many loader valves do have their own relief valves but somebody would have to know the valve to say for sure.






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 07-15-2004, 08:41 Post: 90953
Murf

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 I am frustrated with my loader and need advice

Matt, there is usually a second relief valve in the loader control valve itself, if this is not set high enough, is jammed open slightly, is deeply scored, or the spring in it has weakened or broken, it will do exactly what you are talking about.

A few years back a friend & I went to an auction, he was looking for an old tractor for a chore machine at his cottage. They were offering one, an old MF65 tractor, the auctioneer stated that the PTO was shot and the FEL could barely lift itself and then would drop down as soon as the control was released, but the 3pth was fine. I whispered in his ear that was the one he wanted.

He thought I was nuts but bought it for $500, a few people chuckled at him.

It had a broken relief valve spring ($16) and a broken shift fork ($29) which took an afternoon to fix.

Everything worked perfectly after that, or at least as perfectly as can be expected from a machine the same age as he was.

Best of luck.






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 07-15-2004, 09:20 Post: 90960
matthewh



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 I am frustrated with my loader and need advice

If I switch the quick connects, the loader control box has no hydraulic line from the tranny going to it...........................?

I think it may be the relief valve in the loader. What do I look for from the outside of the control box, so I know where to start taking stuff off?

Thanks again, I'm chipping away daily.
Matthew






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 07-15-2004, 09:44 Post: 90965
Murf

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 I am frustrated with my loader and need advice

Matt, there are two main types of adjustment screw on those kind of valves.

The first is a threaded rod that comes out the side, it has a slot in it so that it can be turned with a screwdriver, it is normally locked by a jam-nut which must be backed off to allow adjustment.

The second is a large plug that looks like the head of a big bolt, when you unscrew it the valve will be in the hole, some are adjusted with a screwdriver, some a hex-driver.

A BIG word of caution here. You CANNOT safely adjust the relief valve without a dead-ended gauge on the circuit so that you can determine the setting. You might get really lucky be 'seat-of-the-pants' experimenting, or you might get 'dirty-seat-of-the-pants'....... Be safe.


Best of luck.






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 07-15-2004, 10:18 Post: 90970
matthewh



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 I am frustrated with my loader and need advice

THANK YOU!!

I am getting more and more confident.

I took pictures of the loader control box. How can I post those. I'm still in my trial membership.

Thanks
Matt






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 07-15-2004, 11:32 Post: 90980
matthewh



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 I am frustrated with my loader and need advice

I unscrewed the threaded rod you are talking about with the lock ing nut. It contained a valve with an internal spring. I cleaned this and put it back in and noticed MORE power, but the loader still won't go up with its bucket over half full of gravel. It does however lift the front end now, and would'nt before I did this.

I need to do more tweaking.
Matt






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