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Adding a grapple bucket to 460 JD Looader

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bmocad
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 52 Rosholt WI
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2004-02-08          76346

Hi
I have some questions about adding a grapple bucket to my john deere460 Loader.
What accessories do I need?? I have the 3rd select value out the back of the tractor.
How is the grapple control Work and where is it tighted in? Could someone list part numbers?I would like to look up pictures if possible. I Know about the lines that mount the loader. I have the 4510 Reverser tractor.
Thanks any information welcome


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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-02-08          76348

Maybe I'm a little confused. If you have a 3rd SCV already that would be the control to use and it should already be mounted (on my 4310 it's a lever in front of the 3ph control). You'd run the lines down the loader arms to the grapple hydraulics. What brand grapple are you looking at? ....

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bmocad
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Posts: 52 Rosholt WI
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2004-02-08          76350

I have been watching Ebay for one.
I understand about control leveler.
But I have the center link connected there already.
And Isn't there a set couplers to add where my loader Quick couplers are ? I Not sure which bucket to get.
I do landscaping on the side. Lot of brush ,stones and Leaves need to be pickup. ....

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kwschumm
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5764 NW Oregon
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2004-02-08          76352

I don't know if this will help but I can tell you how my grapple is hooked up. The 3rd SCV is used to control the grapple with the lines running down the right loader arm and the quick couplers are mounted at the end of the arm near the bucket. In your case you want the 3rd SCV to do double duty between the top-link and grapple. You can probably get a diverter valve to swap between those functions. I have an electric diverter that swaps the joystick between loader/curl and 3ph Top-N-Tilt functions. This was installed before delivery so I'm not sure how it all connects up. ....

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TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2004-02-09          76407

It doesn't sound like the top-link would be adjusted often when the grapple is used.

There was a thing called a hydraulic multiplier discussed a few years back. The particular one discussed may no longer be manufactured but similar gadgets likely are around. They are valving on the work ports of a control valve that switches the lines between two or more double-acting cylinders. The people who had them said they worked OK but frequent switches got to be a pain.

Another alternative is adding a control valve section to the valve assembly that contains the rear outlet valve or replacing a single valve with an assembly. Control valve sections can be purchased for valve makes. ....

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Abbeywoods, LLC
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2004-02-09          76434

I'm a bit confused also, outlets in the back for a loader mounted attachment? I own a 4610 with 48 hoe and 460 loader. I have a six ft. Borgford grapple that pins in place of the loader's bucket, it operates from the accessory third function oil line installation that has a male and female connector at the loader torque tube. The dual selective control valve operates the loader, the hydraulic third selective control valve operates the two outlets on the torque tube. Push the third scv all the way down for 'float,' back to open jaws, forward to close the jaws (pages 44 thru 46 of the owner's manual). The hoe runs off of the power beyond kit. I understand there is a flow diverter accessory kit that will enable you to choose between front or rear outlets, but I don't think you can use both sets of outlets at once. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-02-09          76445

Abbeywoods, I thought I was the only one with a Borgford grapple. I'm pretty impressed with it. How do you like yours? ....

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TomG
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2004-02-09          76465

I think we're on the same wavelength. The problem as I understood it is that the tractor has three circuits and the third is used by a hydraulic top-link. I think Hydraulic Multiplier is or was a brand name for a version of the diverter valve accessory mentioned--a way of getting a selectable 2nd outlet from one control valve. It would mean long hoses if the valve is mounted towards the rear and operation may not be convenient. One likely could be added to a loader circuit as well but that would complicate loader operation. Since I don't have joy stick linkage on my loader, I'd probably look at adding a control valve to my loader valve. ....

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Abbeywoods, LLC
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2004-02-10          76532

KW, it was you who wet my appetite for the Borgford. Having had all of my CUT's set up for skid steer loader compatibility, I was at a loss to decide whether to buy a JD 4610 or a JD 110tlb, as I was giving my L35 to a niece and nephew and selling my CC 7275. As you know, the 460 loader uses pins for its attachments, not the standard skid steer universal setup. The JD 110tlb does have the universal, but won't fit through my barn doors, fold the ROPS on the 4610 and in it goes. I was wrestling with what to buy, then I saw your photos, here, and caught the mfg. from your post. The grapple has seen very little work because I got my machine in Nov. of '03. What I see, I love, and expect it will do just fine. By the way, I use the JD forklift attachment carriage assembly (with some welding and bolting) for the means to attach other implements previously setup with the universal skid steer plate system. I thank you for your sharing Borgford with me as it solved a dilemma. I'm not a full member, so I can't read your full posts - was going to join, but Dennis doesn't take checks - and after being the victim of identity theft, I don't give my numbers to anyone, and that includes PayPal.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
TractorPoint does accept checks, email me for more info
DennisCTB ....

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kwschumm
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2004-02-10          76539

Abbeywoods, using a JD forklift carriage as a universal skid steer adapter is cool. Did you buy the carriage parts separately? I'm curious as to parts cost. ....

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jbs
Join Date: Jul 2003
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2004-02-10          76578

You have to have hydraulic lines run to the front of the loader in order to run the 3rd function. Deere has a kit with a joystick that mounts on the right fender. Rankin Equipment has a joystick mounted button with a electro hydraulic valve that runs off the power beyound circut for a grapple. ....

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Abbeywoods
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2004-02-11          76617

KW, yes. I bought the JD forklift attachment for the 460 loader and at first, ignored its potential. I have a skid steer mount hydraulic post hole digger left over from previous CUT's, and I wanted to add it to the loader without drilling holes in the bucket. Then I saw your grapple, decided I had to have one, and went out to the barn to find a spot to store it. While fussin' around I hit my leg on the forklift attachment, almost fell on the auger, and at that instant knew the two were made for each other. I ordered the grapple and the forklift frame as replacement part, the cost of 3776.00 was for the grapple and frame together. I think the fork part was around $475, and I paid $1100 for the entire fork attachment. How does this compare to what you paid for your grapple? ....

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kwschumm
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2004-02-11          76637

Abbeywoods, without digging up the invoice I think I paid around $2500 for my grapple. But it's only a 5 footer (not 6 like yours) was purchased as a package deal with the tractor. It may have cost a bit more if bought directly from Borgford - or not. Not sure about that.

BTW, glad to see you're now a premium member! ....

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earthwrks
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3853 Home Office in Flat Rock, Michigan
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2004-02-11          76676

I bought my used Bobcat-brand grapple (skid steer mount) from a local rental house who is also a Bobcat dealer for $1200. It had about 50 hours on it. These may be more readily available than one would think: The reason is dealers in my area (Detroit) found that if they rented a skidloader big enough for the grapple both the bobcat and the bucket get destroyed/abused much quicker than if they just rent the bocat with a regular bucket. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-02-11          76677

Earthwrks, is your Bobcat grapple the three tine model or the industrial model? Although either would be quite useful I don't think they are an apples-to-apples comparison to the Borgford grapple since the designs are quite different. The Borgford is wider than the three tine and and doesn't have a bucket like the industrial. Bobcat sure has a lot of neat attachments available though. A universal skid-steer mount is sounding better all the time :) ....

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earthwrks
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2004-02-12          76735

Not knowing what a" three tine" is I'd have to say it's an industrial. Around here we call them "demolition buckets". The bottom is solid and has a reverable cutting edge similar to a dirt bucket only the sides are deeply cut back--this allows you to pick up long loads sideways. Iit has two large independent arms each with a hydraulic cylinder. Each arm has two big tines which work together. So as far as tines go it has four. It weighs aprox. 750 lb. ....

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kwschumm
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2004-02-12          76738

Yeah, that sounds like the industrial. The three tine has two "fingers" on the bottom and one "thumb" on top and is fairly narrow so it looks like it would be less stable with wide loads than yours. The borgford has heavy curved tines on the bottom and top instead of a solid bottom. I can see advantages either way. At $1200 that sounds like a good way to go for those with universal skid-steer mounting systems. ....

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earthwrks
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2004-02-12          76745

It has paid for itself in one job I did dismantling a semi-trailer---I got a hold of one side wall and literally peeled it off the bed. Then I laid it on the ground, grabbed one end, picked it straight up, curled the bucket and it snapped in half, dropped it, grabbed it again and put the whole thing put in the dumpster. On the same job I picked up a "log" that was 4' in diameter (it just fit!) and 12' long with ease (well okay it was a little hairy raising it 5' off the ground to put in the dumpster (5,500lb. is tipping rate). ....

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kwschumm
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2004-02-12          76746

I use mine primarily to move logs around and pile up slash piles for burning. With tines on the bottom it doesn't pick up much dirt which is great when using chain saws or burning stuff. ....

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Abbeywoods
Join Date: Jan 2004
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2004-02-13          76771

I get many calls from homeowners who have purchased new homes or building lots that are never landscaped beyond the very rough stage. Usually, the land is clear in the immediate area around the house but is treed and full of brush everywhere else. For insurance purposes, I sub-contract tree removal, and use several brush cutters to flush cut the small stuff. I then, depending on the acreage, call in another contractor with a D6 LGP and Rome rake. He fingers out all the stumps, I then use the grapple to load his tri-axles. It realy excells in this work. I either rent a Vermeer SC252 to grind out the biggest stumps the D6 won't take out or dig them out with the hoe. The 460/grapple and 4610 will lift a ton over the rail of a tri-axle, something neither my CC7275 or L35 could do. The Borgford has a big advantage because of the many tines (teeth?), it doesn't leave much on the ground. Thanks again KW for the tip! ....

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