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410 material bucket to big

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Jim H
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2002-10-05          43393

Just took possion of a JD-4110/HST/R-4, 410-FEL, 60-MMM, 54"-Front Plow. I ordered a 53" bucket (middle of the road).Came with 63" bucket. Should I return for the 53". I plan on using for routine yard maintenance, top soil, mulch, back saving lifting. Im not sure if the large bucket is to big for what I plan on using it for. I always thought bigger is better?
Any advise from this board would be great.


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DRankin
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2002-10-05          43405

That is a BIG bucket for a small tractor.
The 48-inch bucket (actually measures 49") holds 6 cu ft so this one probably holds 7.75 cu ft. That is a 30 percent increase in volume and therefore weight.
Your R-4's are the right tires for this as they can take the extra weight up front if you keep 'em inflated to the max.
You will need to keep the rear ballast near max too, something along the lines of loaded tires or wheel weights PLUS 700-800# on the rear end.
The only place a big bucket might come in handy for you is if you are going to move snow with it, but it sounds like you have the front blade for that.
I guess there are more downsides than upsides; I would get a smaller bucket. I have not felt like I have needed more than the 48”, and I have moved 45 yards of top soil with it in a single afternoon.
Keep in mind though; even with the smaller bucket this tractor still needs some serious ballast to operate safely.
....

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Art White
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2002-10-05          43410

It is always easier to grade with a bucket that is wider than the tractor tires. The smaller bucket would keep from overloading the front end as it won't hold as much but you should not get a bucket that is narrower than the tractor tires. I've had people ask me to sell them that way and than they will want to move up after they get the tractor to a larger bucket. ....

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DRankin
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2002-10-05          43427

Art, the max tire width on the model in question is 45". ....

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JonB
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2002-10-06          43435

Jim, my 4100 uses a 410 w/ 48" bucket for similar uses and am glad I've a smaller bucket. The smaller bucket means a few more trips, it's safer. Less likely to tip. Dirt isn't always dry, and rocks weigh even more. I'd use a larger bucket only if I was always moving light material on perfectly level ground. ....

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TomG
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2002-10-06          43437

I'm happy I waited to respond till there was some actual 4100/10 experience here. The responses bear out my impressions. I have a 5' bucket on my 24 pto ho/ 3,000 lbs. tractor. I think of the bucket as a bit small for the tractor but not by much.

I think Art's comment about grading should be remembered. If the loader is the only grading tool, certainly having a bucket that covers the rear wheel tracks is desirable. A case can be made that even wider is better. However, wider also produces less lbs./sq./in. when using the bucket bottom to compact soil or gravel. I use my box scraper for grading but still use the loader for compacting gravel. A wide bucket on a light tractor might not compact as well.

One thing about bigger buckets is that heavier loads produce more wear-and-tear on the drive train. True, but there is an assumption that bigger buckets equal more weight. A person doesn't always have to pick up a full load of wet gravel just because a big bucket is there. A bit of operating technique can keep the loads down and minimize stalling the hydraulics. With a bit of discipline and technique, a person should be able to have the advantages of a bigger bucket and avoid the downsides as well. However, I'm not so sure about my discipline and technique so a small bucket probably is better for me.
....

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Art White
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2002-10-06          43445

Tom, you are right that it takes an operator to know that he cannot lift all that you can put in the bucket. We sell many skid steers to farmers that use them for silage and manure and one is loose and light and the manure is elusive as far as it is normally liquid so you cannnot catch that much. When the go to level a drive way with these big buckets they can't movce after loading them with gravel or we take them out after trade in we often have to put the smaller capicity construction buckets on because everyone has to fill the bucket once! ....

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jyoutz
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2002-10-06          43471

I have a 4100 with a 49" bucket. It will lift a full bucket of sand, dirt or gravel no problem. I wish that I had the 54" bucket, it seems right-the 60" bucket seems too large for digging with this tractor. The extra capacity would be great for light weight material like snow, pine needles, mulch, etc... You can always reduce the amount of material that you load if you're working with heavy items, but the extra capacity is oh so nice for lighter material. I find that most material that I move really isn't all that heavy just bulky and the small 49" bucket really doesn't hold very much. I actually kept my 3PH scoop after I discovered how little material the 49" bucket holds. So now when I move lots of material, I fill the rear scoop first and then the loader bucket. This effectively doubles my capacity. ....

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cutter
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2002-10-07          43494

My 4100 came with the 60" bucket. With a heavy back blade mounted, the machine was well balanced for most any use. Actually, the mechanic was quite surprised that JD used such a large bucket on a small machine and warned me against overloading it. As long as you use your head, there should be no problem with it though. I would not have loaded it full of rocks and driven down a rough trail at full throttle either, as mentioned, the front end is not that heavily constructed nor very wide and you could possibly cause damage, not to mention an accident or injury. The reason I wanted the larger one is for moving snow in the winter and carrying leaves and brances during fall/spring cleanup, all fairly light bulky fare. As Tom stated, you can have the best of both worlds with the larger capacity bucket and that 20hp tractor lets you know if you are trying to lift too much (at least mind did). I can tell you that I owned that machine during the last blizzard in this area and it was used extensively to push back snow piles, it worked great with that 60" bucket and the turning brakes on the left side so you could actually use them with the hydo transmission. ....

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Ducati996
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2003-08-21          62330

Just to give some feedback after reading about the risks of having too large of a bucket, I specifically addressed this with the dealer when my 410 FEL was installed on the 4100.
It was clear from all personal there that the 4100 can handle a 61" bucket w/410 FEL. I went with that statement
with no second guessing. I have since loaded that bucket to its max with wet dirt, rocks & concrete, stumps and everything in between. Once full It never showed any signs of strain or overloading. Of course I had enough ballast in the rear ( 700 lbs free weights in ballast box plus Loaded tires)and I never had it extended to its max height ( Didnt need to)..is this causing any undue strain? I see no reason to think so..
I hope this helps someone with their decisions. I have to say without this web site, I would have made all the wrong choices. I now feel 100 % confident in the machine and my abilities. The advice here is the best and eliminates the error a "newbie" can make. I thank you all for the education and advice !! ....

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DRankin
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2003-08-21          62342

It does have a powerful and quick loader. My new 4115 has a 53 inch bucket. It really needed that size to cover the increased rear track width. ....

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Ducati996
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2003-08-21          62386

Mark,

There must be a significant increase in the 4115 (More HP) over the 4100 even though they use the same 410 FEL correct?? You should have no problem with the 61", not that you need it. The 53" is I'm sure big enough..

Ducati996 ....

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Art White
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2003-08-21          62389

Everyones situation is different. And the lighter and smaller bucket does give Mark an advantage as we know no matter what he does he has less chance of overloading his front axle or the load capacity of his loader. Every brand needs to be looked at and rated, and then, maybe then, we all need the devils advocate to spark us and not be brand prejuduce or size, and look at who does give us the most for what we need. For Cutter, and snow or mulch he does well with the bigger bucket! I can think of a few customers that would be lucky to keep the tractor together with the 48" bucket. ....

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cutter
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2003-08-22          62412

This thread seems to have come back to life. I just completed using the Kubota for backfilling my 400' electric trench as well as moving the numerous stumps I dug out while I had the excavator rented. I can say that I noticed some flex in the bottom edge of the larger bucket when I was trying to maneuver one particularly large willow stump into the woods. But I was trying to lift and push with a small surface area well beyond the capacity of the loader, albeit with great caution and particular attention to any adverse reaction by the machine. For this job the small, heavy material bucket would have been better. ....

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Ducati996
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2003-08-22          62414

Hi Art,

I agree with what you say ! In my case I never asked for the largest bucket, it was included with the price of the 410 FEL. Since the 410 FEL is for the 4000 series (4050,4110,4115) JD should have a rated max. bucket size. That way there would be no issue or at least a guidline to work from. In this case I was clear with my dealer on the size of the bucket. They were clear that it was fine.
I would say regardless of brand, the MFG. needs to be 100 % clear on ratings, and have it clearly on Spec. sheets.
The last thing I want is to wreck my machine because of the wrong size attachment. This thread was started with a JD 4110 series question, and since I'm now an "expert" (just kidding) having a 4100 (same machine spec wise as a 4110) I thought I could answer this topic...nothing yet has indicated that the bucket is too large for the machine ....

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Ducati996
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2003-08-22          62416

Hi Cutter,

Maybe a tooth bar would help? It protects the bucket edge, and add's strength to the lip and sides...I have manuvered large ceder stumps out with no flex using the toothbar. I dont have a backhoe ( future thought however) I dug around the stump on all sides, exposed the stump, wrapped a 100 lb chain around it and pulled right out w/ My Jeep Crand Cherokee V8..it took less time then it sounds...its fun !!
Not sure the type of bucket or machine you have...I would say the tooth bar with 2 side bolt attachments will help with the flex ....

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cutter
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2003-08-22          62428

That is an interesting thought. I had a cutting edge on my NH but it was not offered with the Kubota. Art, what is available for the 5' 2910 bucket? BTW Art, I saw some of your machines at the Empire Farm days but did not stumble across you. There was one particular vendor selling a hydraulic quick attach for the three point that was using a machine with your label on it as well. ....

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DRankin
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2003-08-22          62431

I have read in Deere literature that the 61" bucket on the 410 loader is designed for light bulky materials, like feed I would guess.

Ducatti: the 4115 has the "feel" of a larger, heavier machine when compared to the 4110. The added wheelbase really feels like it gives more stability, especially when using the loader, and more traction for some reason. A lot more traction. ....

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Ducati996
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2003-10-14          66180

I finally posted some pictures (upgraded memebership) and
to keep this thread alive, in my picture gallery #4 & #12
kind of show a victory lap with a large ceder tree stump.
I have been a weekend warrior for 2 or more months taking back at least 1 acre (out of my 2 total). The process of digging all around the tree stump, after I felled it. The 4100 does a awsome job digging real deep all around. Axe the remaining roots, and wrap a 100lb chain around it an pull it via Jeep Grand Cherokee. I have done about 12 thus far !! The town took all of them (surprised!) I chose to dig the stump out in the areas that I plan on doing something on (garden or build on) so the stumps would be in the way. Grinding will be on the areas that arent important.
Approx 20 more of these ceder's to go. I will have it done before the first snow, thats the goal !!
Ducati996 ....

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cutter
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2003-10-14          66182

I wish I had taken pictures of the two stumps I moved with the 2910. One was a willow that I had dug with the excavator and removed from the hole with the Kubota. It was as large as the machine, could only lift enough to roll it out and then pushed it into the woods. The other was a pine stump with a root ball the size of my truck. Same deal, but had to move it across the lawn. I hooked a chain to it once out of the hole and pulled it to the woods, not much damage to the sod fortunately. I do know the 4100 digs well, had one. I would like some of those teeth for my loader, would really help. Are they easily removed? ....

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Ducati996
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2003-10-14          66204

Hi Cutter,

Its probably to most least expensive attachment, and one of the most useful. I got it through my dealer, so it cost me
about $325 installed. Two bolts on each side, hugs the FEL lip and protects it. Each tooth can be replaced if broken.
When I'm fine grading I remove it, and use the FEL for tight areas and the RB for larger. Works well for me...

Ducati996 ....

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Cutnfill
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2003-10-14          66260

You will be fine with that bucket for normal yard use. Even though it can pick-up the load I would watch heaping that bucket with rocks and wet dirt. Why strain the machine to save a couple trips. Watch your tire inflation. I have two safety rules I used to tell my operators for small loaders and Skid Steers.

1 Never travel with a full bucket above the head lights.

2 Never turn when getting ready to dump (load truck/ stockpile) with top of bucket above your eye line.

Managed to keep the right side up for many years now. ....

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92gt5ohRed
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2005-01-15          104281

I have the 4110 with the 410 FEL and the widest bucket, 60 or 63 (whatever) and 95% of the time I love having the wide bucket. My driveway is 600 feet long and paved, buzzing down there with a few inches of snow or moving branches and gravel... you name it... it is nice and it is perfect for grading dirt and such. I do have the R4's too, but "seat of the pants" tells me that with very wet dirt of heavy ballast stone you can scoop more than it is comfortable with. I also have the 46 backhoe - which is 1000 lbs on the back - that is great counter weight which may be helping my situation. ....

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