How to determine hydraulics flow direction : Loaders  -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum and Review How to determine hydraulics flow direction : Loaders -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum

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 01-01-2008, 12:09 Post: 149775
earthwrks

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 How to determine hydraulics flow direction

I have a backhoe that I need to figure out where and how the flow is going. There are critcal parts missing like two bypass valves, the original pumps, etc.

I've tried cracking lines to no avail. I priced in-line flow indicators and way too expensive.

I'm hoping there is some trick way--like an external current checker for voltage works.

Any ideas?






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 01-01-2008, 12:12 Post: 149777
kwschumm



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 How to determine hydraulics flow direction

Just a guess, but maybe you could measure the hose diameter with calipers. Maybe the hoses on the high pressure side would expand more than those on the low pressure side.






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 01-01-2008, 13:58 Post: 149781
hardwood

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 How to determine hydraulics flow direction

EW; Maybe I'm just a bit too thick in the shell to understand what you are up to but. Can't you determine from which way the cylinder is moving which end the flow is going in to make it either lengthen or contract? I know sometimes when a half dozen hoses go inside a hoe boom it can be hard to determine which one comes out the other end that you are looking for too. "Splain yerself a bit", (That's Iowegan talk.) Frank.






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 01-01-2008, 16:39 Post: 149784
earthwrks

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 How to determine hydraulics flow direction

The backhoe was running great until I ran the reservoir out of fluid (there were some cylinder leaks that have since been repaired). So the pump was shot. I took it to a supposed "hydraulic shop". I told the guy I wanted to upgrade to a larger pump volume as the hoe and loader weren't really as fast as they could be. I wanted about a 35-40% speed increase.

When I picked the machine up two weeks later the owner's sons had used it to work around their property, got it stuck and yanked it out with a 10-ton hi-lo by one front whell and pulled off the spindle---but didn't tell me that until I the bill for the repair.

Anywho, they removed my shot double-pump, replaced it with a much higher volume single pump---removed other lines, installed others in their place and installed a variable vloume valve and a different bypass valve. This left the machine not twice as fast but twice as slow. And the power steering valve now blows out fluid sometimes, and cause the wheels to turn on their own! I tried to un-do or reverse engineer what they did to no avail. Luckily I saved some of the parts they removed, but don't know where excatly they go or how they work. Several other shops in the area I took the parts to had no idea what the parts do.

The problem I have is that when the operator seat is removed I have a clear view of the plumbing that goes from the pump to the hoe and from the pump to the front up until it goes under the dash. That's where it gets tangled in a mess of steel tubing that goes to the loader valve and svearl that branch off or routed from and to the loader valve, to the reservoir and include the power steering unit.

I have other so-called hydraulic guys look at as they want a "blank check" to look at it. Upon further discussion these guys have no clue at what they were looking at but were "willing to give it a shot" for $50-75 an hour. Not in THIS life Smile

So, I'm thinking of trying to isolate each system from each other and connect my skid steer remotely and power the hydraulics separately. But my main concern is the parts were removed---what they do and where they go.






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 01-01-2008, 19:13 Post: 149789
hardwood

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 How to determine hydraulics flow direction

EW; Was the original double pump meant to power the steering, brakes, power shift tranny of the tractor, if so equiped, seperately form the hoe and loader? I think that if that was the case with the double pump you either need to start over with a double pump or some sort of flow directional valve that regulates how much flow and at what pressure goes where. Possibly this is the cause of your power steeting problem?? Somebody somewhere must have a hydraulic schematic of the original layout, perhaps that may be your next move??? Just my rambling thoughts. good luck. Frank.






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 01-01-2008, 19:35 Post: 149791
earthwrks

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 How to determine hydraulics flow direction

Frank the backhoe was made a company called The General Machienry Company of Witchita, Kansas. It's called a 210 General. It was the precursor to the Davis Machine Co. and Case-Davis trenchers--the owner of General was the son of Davis. Scatback loaders use some of the parts including the actual loader arms. There are no known parts or diagrams available. It appears to made like the old AMC cars of old---they used off the shelf parts like: the rear axle is a narrowed Dana 60, the trans is really a HD Jeep 2-speed transfer case connected to a hydro motor. The steering is similar to a hi-lo's. The steering cicuit is plumbed in-line with the loader valve so it gets the same supply but runs through some sort of a valve to reduce pressure and volume. The hydraulic shop installed a manually adjustable valve so that the steering would work but then everything else shut down.

How's about I put it on a trailer and send it your way? You should have it figured out come Spring I reckon?






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 01-01-2008, 20:02 Post: 149792
hardwood

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 How to determine hydraulics flow direction

EW; Serious as an undertaker for a change, If had about 500 other jobs caught up that sounds like a fun project. With enough time, a Surplus Center catalog, and your unlimited repair budget, I see no reason it couldn't be done. My biggest roadblock would be explaing to the Mrs. why I'm working on someone elses stuff again, instead of building her new bedroom set, kitchen table, computer desk, disposing of the rusting "H" Farmalls out in the grove that have followed me home like lost puppys. Really given enoughy time and study it shouldn't be that tough to do. Best of luck. Frank.






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 01-01-2008, 21:40 Post: 149793
bvance

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 How to determine hydraulics flow direction

EW,

Perhaps just overstating the obvious here, but what about taking the hoe back to the folks that screwed it up and tell them to do it right? They would at least know which hoses are doing what.

Brian






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 01-01-2008, 22:16 Post: 149795
earthwrks

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 How to determine hydraulics flow direction

Vance:

Here's my situation:
You go in for a knee operation. You wake up and they cut the other leg off. Would ya really wanna let 'em try it again?

After spending an entire day in their shop with these a___holes trying to redo what they did in their shop, they wanted another shot at it (for more money). Uh-uh. Then they sent ME a bill for $450 for fixing MY front spindle that THEY broke, and another $850 for parts and labor the first go around. I told 'em to sue me. They didn't.






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 01-01-2008, 23:41 Post: 149804
bvance

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 How to determine hydraulics flow direction

EW,

I figured it was probably something like you described, but thought I would ask anyway. Glad to hear you didn't pay them. I hope you find a way to fix your hoe.

Brian






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